Should I Have Stepped In??

Nurses General Nursing

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So last night right as we were about to fall asleep we heard what sounded like fireworks outside our apt. Then we heard people screaming. We thought it may have been gunfire since we also saw the lights of a police car a minute later. So we go outside to see what happened and find that 2 people were shot like 100 feet from our building!!! There was a young man lying on the ground, bleeding and someone said he was not breathing. ( The other guy I think was shot in the arm but was walking around and talking) The police were there but no one was doing compressions on this guy. It looked like there was a family member sitting next to him and I though I saw him give rescue breaths once. Then I heard him say he might have been breathing.

Now I am not a nurse yet (7 weeks to go) but I am CPR certified. I didn't step in and offer to do CPR for a few reasons. They had started to put up the crime scene tape and it was only a matter of a minute before the ambulance arrived. I never got real close but it looked bloody and I didn't have any gloves or anything and I don't know this guy from Adam. I've never had to actually do CPR. I guess I was just plain scared! Plus I don't know the possible ramifications if something went wrong. Would the Good Samaritan Act protect me? Was I obligated by law being healthcare provider CPR certified and a CNA to do something? I know the ambulance got there right away but now that I am thinking about it today I am getting upset and thinking no matter what I should have done SOMETHING or at least told the police I could try to help if they wanted me to. What do you think" I really feel terrible

And you said you are sure the amulance was only "minutes away"?

Actually, I said the ambulance arrived within a minute or so of me stepping outside and realizing what was going on. Perhaps I could have helped this person, but what's done is done and I am not ashamed of myself. It's not going to change anything for me to beat myself up over it. I will take it as one more learning experience that will serve me well in the future. I had no protective gear and there was a lot of blood. How am I to know that person didn't have HIV or some other disease? If he had a bullet lodged in the chest, could I have caused further damage by doing compressions? Also, I heard a bystander say it was a gang-related thing.... I give you a lot of credit if that wouldn't have scared you; but it sure scared me.

I really didn't intend for this thread to start any arguments, I was simply seeking out advice from anyone with more experience than myself.

I would not go outside if I hear gunshots. Next time stay in and look out your window. You could have easily gotten shot.

She said the police were there. Is that not safe enough for you all?

I'm sorry, but if anything, I probably would have been running in the OPPOSITE direction after hearing gunshots and screaming. Even police officers, with all their training, get shot and killed. The situation may have been a bit safer with the police there, but still not safe. She'll be able to save even more lives if she doesn't get herself killed before she graduates!:sniff:

You did what was right FOR YOU. Under the circumstances you have presented, I also would not help. With no PPE to prevent disease from bloodborne pathogens? A shooting? Scene not secured? Where is the shooter/shooters?? Nah I would have been hiding under my bedcovers!

Having been witness to a deadly shooting while still a teen, I have to say that unless you come upon or witness a shooting, you can say all you want how you are going to act, but there is a HUGE difference in how you act when actually faced with an extreme event such as this!

Being trained in CPR does not mean you have to risk your life!!

Two things- where the police were not attending to the victim there are two sceanrios- the victim is already dead, or the scene is not yet secure and safe enough for them to even go over and assess the victim. That ALONE tells me your actions are justified.

Jill please don't be so harsh and judgemental. It is commendable that you have helped people. I am sure the circumstances were much safer than this scene.

jill48,

I think you should be ashamed of yourself!! Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion but you could have been a little more compassionate in your post. You were really harsh. Also, you cannot say for certain what you would have done, as a NURSING STUDENT, in that situation b/c you were not in the situation as a NURSING STUDENT!

Steph

Yes, Jill, shame on you - you're talking about a nursing student with no experience, and you're expecting her to run into a situation that she had no experience with, was not equipid for - and IF SHE DID NOT KNOW WHAT SHE WAS DOING could have done more harm?

You have 11 years experience - she has none. Geez.

Specializes in transplant case management.

Hey hang on there Jill.........the polcie were there and every police officer is trained in CPR, and they carry protective gear. If the victim required CPR, the police would have done it until EMS arrived. As a former Paramedic and Critical Care nurse, when I arrived at the scene, the less people involved, the better it was for EMS and the victim. If this situation had occured outside where I live and I had no protective gear, in this day and age, no way would I have initiated CPR, my safey ALWAYS comes first.

Who cares if PD was there. If you didnt see the situation in its entirety, you dont know who the shooter is or if theyll come back. Just because PD's on scene doesnt mean its safe if the "x" factor or shooter and their current location is still an unknown. You have no responsibility whatsoever to step into that kind of situation.

If people will go into an ER with PD and security present to finish the job, then I'm sure they have no problem going back to the scene to finish the job.

Specializes in Peds Cardiology,Peds Neuro,Pedi ER,PICU, IV Jedi.

leesespieces...You did the right thing. Relax. One of the first things you learn as a new EMT/medic is SCENE SAFETY. How do you know who shot whom? Where's the gun?? Anyone have a knife??

And no, Jill, just because the police are on the scene does NOT mean the scene is safe.

Having been a field medic for more years than I can count, I can just say that I'd rather you stayed on the sidelines rather than possibly becoming another victim. You did the right thing. Don't second guess yourself. You are safe, and that's what matters.

True story:

Years ago (1988) I'm a third person ridealong EMT with my local FD in Virginia. Got a call for unknown EMS...apparently a woman was on the phone with a crisis counselor and the boyfriend pulled the phone off the wall. Anyway, we get there and he's kicked the crap out of her pretty good. Ripped her earrings out (pulled them DOWN, and out of their holes), bit her several times, sliced her dress with some sharp object...we thought she was the only victim...then we see him.

He's standing out on the sidewalk with about 30 people around him...bleeding pretty good from a self inflicted would to the forearm. Police release him to be treated by us so we wrapped his wound in gauze and he got in the back of the unit. Police cleared our transport and we're about a block away from the hospital when he PULLS A KNIFE. I'm sitting right beside him...shocked (ya think!!) then he jumps out of the back of the ambulance...bounces a few times on the road, and almost gets hit by a following squad car.

Don't assume anything. If you're not comfortable getting involved, then don't. As far as getting in trouble if something goes wrong, you need to know that as long as you do what you have been trained to do and do so in good faith then the law is written to protect you.

And no jill, it's you who should be ashamed.

vamedic4

You are trying to figure out why you didn't do anything. You need to trust that your intuition took stock of the situation and kept you out of it. Maybe you saw things about the guy or in the way the police acted that told you, whether you were aware of it or not, that the guy was beyond help. Continual second-guessing of your inner workings will only make you either freeze next time something similar happens, or force an override on your intuition with potentially disastrous results. So quit doubting yourself. Just press on.

Yes. I HAVE come upon situations and pulled over my car and got out and walked up to the police and offered my help. I WOULD lose sleep if I could have helped, but didn't. And there is no comparing this situation to a med error. Gimme a break!

Well, you sure learned me real good there, jill. I'm glad you know everything, and the rest of us are a bunch of careless, selfish idiots.

What's that phrase, nurses eat their young? Thanks for the nice mentoring, Jill.

Specializes in Critical Care.

Sorry duplicated post, see a couple of replies down.

Specializes in Case Management.
Yes. I HAVE come upon situations and pulled over my car and got out and walked up to the police and offered my help. I WOULD lose sleep if I could have helped, but didn't. And there is no comparing this situation to a med error. Gimme a break!

Although your initial post seemed harsh, I agree with you. I think I would have helped as well, I have pulled over and rendered aid at the scene of 2 accidents and I have done CPR in a mall at a bank where a man fell over dead of cardiac arrest. Given the circumstances, I would have spoken to the cops and identified myself as a nurse and requested permission to assess the person. I would have requested gloves and whatever the cops have they all usually are equipped with some first aid equipment, and I feel that the appropriate response for any health care professional is if there is no one else that is willing to help then we need to step in and do what we can.

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