Should I Have Stepped In?? - page 2
So last night right as we were about to fall asleep we heard what sounded like fireworks outside our apt. Then we heard people screaming. We thought it may have been gunfire since we also saw the... Read More
Mar 23, '07I would not go outside if I hear gunshots. Next time stay in and look out your window. You could have easily gotten shot.
Mar 23, '07Quote from jill48I'm sorry, but if anything, I probably would have been running in the OPPOSITE direction after hearing gunshots and screaming. Even police officers, with all their training, get shot and killed. The situation may have been a bit safer with the police there, but still not safe. She'll be able to save even more lives if she doesn't get herself killed before she graduates!She said the police were there. Is that not safe enough for you all?
Mar 23, '07You did what was right FOR YOU. Under the circumstances you have presented, I also would not help. With no PPE to prevent disease from bloodborne pathogens? A shooting? Scene not secured? Where is the shooter/shooters?? Nah I would have been hiding under my bedcovers!
Having been witness to a deadly shooting while still a teen, I have to say that unless you come upon or witness a shooting, you can say all you want how you are going to act, but there is a HUGE difference in how you act when actually faced with an extreme event such as this!
Being trained in CPR does not mean you have to risk your life!!
Two things- where the police were not attending to the victim there are two sceanrios- the victim is already dead, or the scene is not yet secure and safe enough for them to even go over and assess the victim. That ALONE tells me your actions are justified.
Jill please don't be so harsh and judgemental. It is commendable that you have helped people. I am sure the circumstances were much safer than this scene.Last edit by kukukajoo on Mar 23, '07
Mar 23, '07Quote from scallistoYes, Jill, shame on you - you're talking about a nursing student with no experience, and you're expecting her to run into a situation that she had no experience with, was not equipid for - and IF SHE DID NOT KNOW WHAT SHE WAS DOING could have done more harm?jill48,
I think you should be ashamed of yourself!! Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion but you could have been a little more compassionate in your post. You were really harsh. Also, you cannot say for certain what you would have done, as a NURSING STUDENT, in that situation b/c you were not in the situation as a NURSING STUDENT!
You have 11 years experience - she has none. Geez.
Mar 23, '07Hey hang on there Jill.........the polcie were there and every police officer is trained in CPR, and they carry protective gear. If the victim required CPR, the police would have done it until EMS arrived. As a former Paramedic and Critical Care nurse, when I arrived at the scene, the less people involved, the better it was for EMS and the victim. If this situation had occured outside where I live and I had no protective gear, in this day and age, no way would I have initiated CPR, my safey ALWAYS comes first.
Mar 23, '07Who cares if PD was there. If you didnt see the situation in its entirety, you dont know who the shooter is or if theyll come back. Just because PD's on scene doesnt mean its safe if the "x" factor or shooter and their current location is still an unknown. You have no responsibility whatsoever to step into that kind of situation.
If people will go into an ER with PD and security present to finish the job, then I'm sure they have no problem going back to the scene to finish the job.
Mar 23, '07leesespieces...[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]You did the right thing. Relax. One of the first things you learn as a new EMT/medic is SCENE SAFETY. How do you know who shot whom? Where's the gun?? Anyone have a knife??
And no, Jill, just because the police are on the scene does NOT mean the scene is safe.
Having been a field medic for more years than I can count, I can just say that I'd rather you stayed on the sidelines rather than possibly becoming another victim. You did the right thing. Don't second guess yourself. You are safe, and that's what matters.
Years ago (1988) I'm a third person ridealong EMT with my local FD in Virginia. Got a call for unknown EMS...apparently a woman was on the phone with a crisis counselor and the boyfriend pulled the phone off the wall. Anyway, we get there and he's kicked the crap out of her pretty good. Ripped her earrings out (pulled them DOWN, and out of their holes), bit her several times, sliced her dress with some sharp object...we thought she was the only victim...then we see him.
He's standing out on the sidewalk with about 30 people around him...bleeding pretty good from a self inflicted would to the forearm. Police release him to be treated by us so we wrapped his wound in gauze and he got in the back of the unit. Police cleared our transport and we're about a block away from the hospital when he PULLS A KNIFE. I'm sitting right beside him...shocked (ya think!!) then he jumps out of the back of the ambulance...bounces a few times on the road, and almost gets hit by a following squad car.
Don't assume anything. If you're not comfortable getting involved, then don't. As far as getting in trouble if something goes wrong, you need to know that as long as you do what you have been trained to do and do so in good faith then the law is written to protect you.
And no jill, it's you who should be ashamed.
vamedic4Last edit by vamedic4 on Mar 23, '07
Mar 23, '07You are trying to figure out why you didn't do anything. You need to trust that your intuition took stock of the situation and kept you out of it. Maybe you saw things about the guy or in the way the police acted that told you, whether you were aware of it or not, that the guy was beyond help. Continual second-guessing of your inner workings will only make you either freeze next time something similar happens, or force an override on your intuition with potentially disastrous results. So quit doubting yourself. Just press on.
Mar 23, '07Quote from jill48Well, you sure learned me real good there, jill. I'm glad you know everything, and the rest of us are a bunch of careless, selfish idiots.Yes. I HAVE come upon situations and pulled over my car and got out and walked up to the police and offered my help. I WOULD lose sleep if I could have helped, but didn't. And there is no comparing this situation to a med error. Gimme a break!
What's that phrase, nurses eat their young? Thanks for the nice mentoring, Jill.
Mar 23, '07Quote from jill48Although your initial post seemed harsh, I agree with you. I think I would have helped as well, I have pulled over and rendered aid at the scene of 2 accidents and I have done CPR in a mall at a bank where a man fell over dead of cardiac arrest. Given the circumstances, I would have spoken to the cops and identified myself as a nurse and requested permission to assess the person. I would have requested gloves and whatever the cops have they all usually are equipped with some first aid equipment, and I feel that the appropriate response for any health care professional is if there is no one else that is willing to help then we need to step in and do what we can.Yes. I HAVE come upon situations and pulled over my car and got out and walked up to the police and offered my help. I WOULD lose sleep if I could have helped, but didn't. And there is no comparing this situation to a med error. Gimme a break!
Mar 23, '07Quote from jill48NO, it's not safe enough for me. I am not trained in scene safety, I am trained in nursing. If there is a chance that I might be injured and the police are already there, I let them do their job. If it was reversed the police would do the same. I would hate to become a second victim because I overstepped and entered into a situation I had no business being in.She said the police were there. Is that not safe enough for you all?
Just because the police were there doesn't mean it's safe. You never know when another gun will be brought into the mix.
Mar 23, '07I also missed the part in the initial post that said OP was a student. In that case I believe she should not be held to the standard of a seasoned nurse. So, jill, I see where you are coming from, but this student was caught by surprise and cannot be held accountable for not doing anything.