Shabbos/Religious Observances

[texasmommy]

As I begin the applications process for nursing schools, I have one huuuuge concern - my religious obligations. I am not permitted to work/attend school, etc. from sunset Friday nights until an hour past sunset on Saturday nights because of the Jewish sabbath. I've heard that a lot of programs have 12hr clinicals on Saturdays...yikes! Has anyone "worked it out" with similar obligations?

[leslie :-D]

ok.

very interesting link.

perhaps a bit more ambiguous, but still says:

"As with almost all of the commandments, all of these Shabbat restrictions can be violated if necessary to save a life."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/shabbat.html

leslie

[Agnus]

Just a little added aside to my previous post. I Attend Church every Sunday that I can. I resent a policy at my hospital that says, if you declare at the time you are hired that your religion does not permit you to work on Sunday you never have to work on Sunday. Excuse me! I would like Sunday off to attend Church as well. The difference is my religion does not provide me the convenient command forbidding me to work.

So I work over half of the Sundays in a year because of someone else's religion. I have to wonder about the personal ethics of a person that goes into a profession understanding the work is 24/7/365 when such work goes against anything they are willing to do.

I submit this with respect. At the same time need to express my frustration on the matter.

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

I was written up for missing clinicals on Rosh Hashanah this year. It was the only day I have missed for school during my entire program.

Anyway, our class is split up into different clinical rotation days: some of us are on Tuesdays, some on Wednesdays, and some on Saturdays. I don't know how your program works, but it shouldn't be too hard to arrange to have Shabbat off.

Wow, that's terrible! I grew up in a secular Jewish home and went to a public school that had a large Jewish population We used to get Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kipper off, the whole school district (Beverly Hills) But, my family wasn't observant, other than in a very nominal way. I'm a Christian now.

[woody62, RN]

The situations that would allow an Orthodox Jew to violate the laws of the Sabbath are really very few, and as a rule, we must consult with a Rov (a rabbi who can make decisions based on the parameters of Jewish law) for any of those. Potok's books are very interesting, but not necessarily an accurate representation of religious Jewish life. Only if deemed absolutely, completely necessary (to save a life, etc, if that particular person was the only one available who could do so) may the Sabbath be violated. It is a very important decision that can only be decided for the observant Jew by a competent Rov.

I agree. And the comment about Potok's books, as a representation is like comparing a Catholic author's representation of the church as accurate. Neither holds much water or much truth. We never had any problems with each other's religious rules or guidelines.

You are correct about the decision being made by one's Rov. I once helped an elderly Jewish gentleman get dressed to go home. And during the act, I accidentally touched his ritual fringe, when three of his sons entered the room. They were appalled at me, a woman and a gentile helping their father. The father told them, I was doing a good deed, and therefore had not violated any religious law. Some people think that religious beliefs are easy to over come or violate. And apparently they are, for some.

Woody:balloons:

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Agnus,

She has never said she can't work as a nurse on Shabbos. She has said she can't go to school on Shabbos.

I'm sure you see the difference.

[TazziRN, RN]

Texasmommy isn't an employee, and this isn't a disaster. She doesn't have enough training to save a life (yet). She would only be a student. Perhaps she should concentrate on one hurdle at a time.

She said "I am not permitted to work/attend school,"

I realize she is not licensed yet. I was answering to the above statement.

[TazziRN, RN]

Tazzi, the colloquial expression is, "We live by the commandments, not die by them."

That said, breaking the law may not be permitted by one's own decision, and the reason must be serious. Going to a class, on a day when writing and reading, travelling, kindling any kind of fire, ripping paper, even carrying keys are prohibited, would not constitute a valid reason for the Jewish equivalent of a "special dispensation."

:)

I wasn't talking about doing anything without permission, I meant that I'm sure permission would be granted. And I was talking about work, not school. I know there is a difference.

Agnus,

She has never said she can't work as a nurse on Shabbos. She has said she can't go to school on Shabbos.

I'm sure you see the difference.

Actually, she did. See my post above this one.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Well, she said she can't work and I'm sure she meant at a plain old non-medical job. Apparently she wasn't clear enough to avoid offending people looking to be offended.

I was not trying to criticize you, Tazzi, only explain.

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

Judaism has different denominations, some are very lenient and others ultra strict, plus many in between.

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

An ultra Orthodox can't even turn a light on or off on the Sabbath. The women will leave a burner on to heat up food because according to some sects of Judaism turning on a burner is work.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Actually, you can't turn on a light or burner because you can't start a fire.

People eat "cholent" on Shabbos because you can put it in a slow oven that stays on from start to finish. It's a big casserole with meat and I think beans.

[Agnus]

Agnus,

She has never said she can't work as a nurse on Shabbos. She has said she can't go to school on Shabbos.

I'm sure you see the difference.

I realize that, and understand your point. I believe this is a question she should confront now with her a Rabbi whom she respects because the problem does not end with graduation.

She may be able to avoid and even work this out both as a student and as an RN. Working it out is ideal and usually is very doable as a student and later as an RN.

I am asking her to explore the ethics beyond the strict legalism of her religion. Things in life are seldom black and white. She will experience problems in life no matter what she chooses to do if she is unwilling to look beyond a narrow black and white definition.

It has been my experience that many people who are deeply religious and devoted to a set of beliefs are indeed mistaken about many things their religion demands of them.

I stand by my concern about the "ethics" of people who enter something with certain understandings of what will be demanded of them knowing full well that they have conflicting demands on them. This hold true for school as well and profession.

If she can not resolve the the "morality" of essentially forcing someone else to take her place to protect her moral standing then I am not sure this is the best profession or type of school.

I advised her to talk with a Rabbi whom she trusts. Not just any Rabbi. I do not know what he may tell her. I admit the problem of forcing someone else to do Saturday so she can be off may not bother her. It is my issue.

I bring is up because it is my issue. She may have never considered it this way and now that I have brought it up it might be a concern for her. As I said life is rarely black and white and she will continue to face problems what ever she chooses. She needs her Rabbi to help her one on one to find a way to resolve this in a way that is right for her.