Rate Your Pain

The control of pain could be one of the most subjective and complex assessments that a nurse has to complete. JHACO has put the patient's right to have their pain controlled on the forefront of nursing assessments. What is a nurse to do with all that subjective information? Nurses Announcements Archive Article

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There's all sorts of pain. There's physical, emotional or a combination of both (and probably a lot more descriptive words that can be used). The most difficult part of pain for a nurse is to put aside some of their own thoughts, and focus on patients as a whole.

Pain control is complex. So one doesn't have to go it alone. Yes, there are "drug seeker, push it fast, give me more" kinds of patients. Those are the patients who need a few more disciplines involved than a nurse with a vial. And one should not hesitate to use them, especially when it becomes apparent that your interventions are not working.

So how does a nurse do all this with a "straight face"? Like a number of things in nursing, a nurse needs to have the ability to leave out judgement. Which is difficult when on the one hand we have to educate patients on care, on the other do it without a tone that suggests distaste.

We need to remember that for the patient the pain is real. And the loss of control real. And there is real fear. This is the patient's perception, for some their reality. If pain has the ability to raise one's RR, one's blood pressure, would it also make sense that it is a real symptom that requires intervention?

I have noticed that, especially in a rehab setting, that there's a huge push for pre-medicating. For a patient to receive a PRN prior to the pain "getting out of control". Using key words like "out of control" can backfire. Then you have a patient that is fearful, edgy and in constant anticipation for the other shoe to drop. And that does nothing to help a patient advance in function.

Then you have the "well, patient x was chatting and laughing and rated the pain at a 10. SERIOUSLY????". Again, needs more disciplines involved than you can provide, however, don't be so quick to judge pain on what the patient is doing just to not feel the anxiety that uncontrolled pain or perceived and/or real withdrawal can give.

Take the personality out of the equation, and follow the orders for control of pain. If you are thinking that multiple mg of dilaudid pushed every hour is excessive, then you need to speak to the MD about the plan.

Some patients do not realize there's viable options. There are patients who do realize there's viable options but choose not to take them. It is when we take the judgement out of the equation, do what we can to give a patient access to services that they may or may not take us up on, then can we be mindful of a paients needs.

Such as those in acute pain are mindful of the need to not let the pain get "too bad", chronic pain suffers are intimately aware of this idea, and both need to be medicated per order when indicated. If a patient is over-medicated, a nurse needs to respond to that. And if a patient is under-medicated the same holds true.

JHACO is very clear on the needs of a patient and the right of a patient to receive control of pain. This is when a personal judgement needs to be pushed to the side, and a nursing process be put into play. We should never be in a position to assume that all patients at the end of the day want to be medicated into oblivion, nor every patient who experiences pain and asks to be medicated are seeking some sort of high. We are not feeding addicitons. An addict is an addict. We are contolling pain.

A patient may receive 100mg of Dilaudid a day (an extreme example but possible) and exhibit no side effect. An opioid-naive patient might get knocked out from 0.5mg push. Calling MD should dependent on thorough assessment and history of the patient, not just based on the amount patient receives.

We had patients who would get that kind of narcotic between their PCA, epidural and PO meds. No joke. Oncology pain is nasty stuff.

Specializes in Psychiatry.

I have a hospice pt who was an Oxycontin addict (heavy user) for several years prior to his dx. He is now is hospice care for Lung CA w metastases pretty much everywhere. He weighs about 80#. I am continually titrating his po Oxycontin and Oxy IR for his comfort. He is on very large doses of each. He takes 270mg of Oxycontin qd and receives 40mg doses of Oxyfast q1 hour prn for breakthru.

To NOT give him these large doses because "he's an addict" is not only unethical I feel, would be malpractice on my part. I advocate for him w our hospice Doc. and titrate his meds as needed.

I have a hospice pt who was an Oxycontin addict (heavy user) for several years prior to his dx. He is now is hospice care for Lung CA w metastases pretty much everywhere. He weighs about 80#. I am continually titrating his po Oxycontin and Oxy IR for his comfort. He is on very large doses of each. He takes 270mg of Oxycontin qd and receives 40mg doses of Oxyfast q1 hour prn for breakthru.

To NOT give him these large doses because "he's an addict" is not only unethical I feel, would be malpractice on my part. I advocate for him w our hospice Doc. and titrate his meds as needed.

EXACTLY. Addicts get sick, too.

Specializes in Med-Surg/Neuro/Oncology floor nursing..
Wow Steve, what's your suggested alternative then? Get rid of all narcotics and leave all those patients writhing in pain? Snatch away all those antidepressants with which many people finally found a control of their lives?

There are devastating effects on healing process if pain is not controlled. I shudder at the thought of patients denied of adequate pain meds on oncology wards or in hospice especially.

Agreed...I thought the days of surgery without anesthesia went out the window with the bullets patients used to bite on.

I forgot to add in my original post...I know a pretty famous quote by an English Judge named William Blackstone: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." This is obvious in regards to the criminal justice system..better to have guilty people out on the street than someone who did not commit any wrongdoing locked up for life. I feel the same in regards to medicating patients;

I would rather give 2mgs of dilaudid IVP with 2mgs of ativan IVP to what turned out to be 100 drug addicts(of course without knowing at the time they were addicts) than to deny one person in legitimate, severe pain.

Maybe I am still bitter about being burned that one time of being accused of drug seeking in the ER and then after the accusations turned out I had a really bad bowel infection...or maybe I am a left-sided nut job...call it what you want. But I think it's more criminal to deny a LEGIT suffering patient more than to medicate a suspected drug addict. That being said...if it's in my face someone is malingering I will be the first to bring my suspicions to the MD. If they have had twenty ER visits in the past three weeks for the same thing with no concrete evidence..maybe they do have pain..then the doctor needs to refer them to a pain management clinic. Also if you are on the fence on someone being a seeker then you can always check their controlled substance history(well nurses can't but doctors can...at least here in NY state, they have a data base with a patients name, the actual name of the controlled substance(s)(schedule II-V) they had filled, the strength, quantity, if they were from different prescribers(it doesn't give the ACTUAL name of who prescribed it, just if it they were from different people), the date it was filled and the pharmacy. I mean I have better things to do than play detective and chances are if I am on the fence about someone I will probably not go out of my way.

But then again, I don't work in the ED so I can't really speak of the frustration of how many patients I see daily trying to get a free "fix" off the hospital. Most of the people I take care of are really sick, genuinely hurting a need a lot of meds for their recovery. Of course I am sure one or two bad apples slip through...but I am not going to let them ruin my day(totally not worth it) I was going to go into law enforcement but I didn't(that being said...I don't go around breaking the law either...I worked way too hard to get to where I am to throw my license away)...

We can try to get them help...detox, rehab, NA meeting referrals..but unless they hit bottom and are ready to get clean for THEMSELVES, nothing will change. By not giving them their 150mgs of Demerol or 3mgs of Dilaudid isn't going to give them that "AHA" moment and ask for detox and rehab...bets are they are going to go elsewhere to score. That being said...I have to repeat myself...I will NOT medicate a known drug fiend with no medical issues...a drug fiend with a legit medical problem.say cancer or a gunshot wound is a whole different story.

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
Agreed...I thought the days of surgery without anesthesia went out the window with the bullets patients used to bite on.

I forgot to add in my original post...I know a pretty famous quote by an English Judge named William Blackstone: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." This is obvious in regards to the criminal justice system..better to have guilty people out on the street than someone who did not commit any wrongdoing locked up for life. I feel the same in regards to medicating patients;

I would rather give 2mgs of dilaudid IVP with 2mgs of ativan IVP to what turned out to be 100 drug addicts(of course without knowing at the time they were addicts) than to deny one person in legitimate, severe pain.

Maybe I am still bitter about being burned that one time of being accused of drug seeking in the ER and then after the accusations turned out I had a really bad bowel infection...or maybe I am a left-sided nut job...call it what you want. But I think it's more criminal to deny a LEGIT suffering patient more than to medicate a suspected drug addict. That being said...if it's in my face someone is malingering I will be the first to bring my suspicions to the MD. If they have had twenty ER visits in the past three weeks for the same thing with no concrete evidence..maybe they do have pain..then the doctor needs to refer them to a pain management clinic. Also if you are on the fence on someone being a seeker then you can always check their controlled substance history(well nurses can't but doctors can...at least here in NY state, they have a data base with a patients name, the actual name of the controlled substance(s)(schedule II-V) they had filled, the strength, quantity, if they were from different prescribers(it doesn't give the ACTUAL name of who prescribed it, just if it they were from different people), the date it was filled and the pharmacy. I mean I have better things to do than play detective and chances are if I am on the fence about someone I will probably not go out of my way.

But then again, I don't work in the ED so I can't really speak of the frustration of how many patients I see daily trying to get a free "fix" off the hospital. Most of the people I take care of are really sick, genuinely hurting a need a lot of meds for their recovery. Of course I am sure one or two bad apples slip through...but I am not going to let them ruin my day(totally not worth it) I was going to go into law enforcement but I didn't(that being said...I don't go around breaking the law either...I worked way too hard to get to where I am to throw my license away)...

We can try to get them help...detox, rehab, NA meeting referrals..but unless they hit bottom and are ready to get clean for THEMSELVES, nothing will change. By not giving them their 150mgs of Demerol or 3mgs of Dilaudid isn't going to give them that "AHA" moment and ask for detox and rehab...bets are they are going to go elsewhere to score. That being said...I have to repeat myself...I will NOT medicate a known drug fiend with no medical issues...a drug fiend with a legit medical problem.say cancer or a gunshot wound is a whole different story.

"Drug fiend"? Really? One cannot be a "drug fiend" and not have a medical issue. It IS a medical issue - among psychological and spiritual deficits.

I've been working on a 30-bed orthopedics unit for a little under a year...so I am very familiar with pain assessments. I had a doc explain to me that bone pain is one of the worst types of pain and I took that to heart. Many of our patients come out of surgery with epidurals, perineurals, PCA pumps (dilaudid, fentanyl), Q pumps, around-the-clock pain med administration, etc. But I worry sometimes about causing low BP and respiratory depression. In our older patients I have that fear of delayed renal function. I once administered PO pain med and then breakthrough IV pain meds as well as oxycontin, to a patient post-op day #1 hip replacement; she was a&ox4, RR WNL. She also received BP meds in the AM; her BP and HR were WNL. But then the physical therapist came to get her out of bed and her BP plummeted. We put her in reverse Trendelenberg and bolus-ed her. Fortunately her LOC didn't change throughout. But it really worried me about administering pain medications in addition to BP meds & PT. Any advice or tips or experiences regarding safe pain medication administration? Thanks!

Specializes in Peds ED, Peds Stem Cell Transplant, Peds.

I personally dislike the pain rating sysytem. It know it is subjective. I know it is all we have. But when you have patients rating pain at an 11 on a 1-10 scale, that is having too much fun. It isn't anywhere close to being accurate.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Emergency, CEN.
I personally dislike the pain rating sysytem. It know it is subjective. I know it is all we have. But when you have patients rating pain at an 11 on a 1-10 scale that is having too much fun. It isn't anywhere close to being accurate.[/quote']

I agree. The conversation goes like this:

Me to pt who c/o cough x2 days and is laughing with friends and texting: So how would you number your pain if 0 is no pain and 10 is the worst pain of your entire life?

Pt: 10. Tee hee.

Me: ok, so this the worst pain in your life. I'll let the provider know.

Sigh.

Specializes in Med-Surg/Neuro/Oncology floor nursing..
"Drug fiend"? Really? One cannot be a "drug fiend" and not have a medical issue. It IS a medical issue - among psychological and spiritual deficits.

You know what I mean...a legit medical issue that warrants the treatment with narcotics. My uncle was the perfect example(not to air my families dirty laundry)..had turned his trading office on wall street into his own drug factory of sorts..he was a self-proclaimed drug fiend(his words, not mine)...not only did he sell and make the stuff, he absolutely loved it. Long story short...he was watch by the DEA and the FEDS, got busted, was out on bail till his court date, got cancer and was in the hospital for the rest of his miserable life. If he had been denied medication because he was under the watch of the federal government, that would constitute cruel and unusual punishment. He had two medical problems...his love for controlled substances(of all kinds..ups and downs) and cancer. Sorry but cancer supersedes the addiction and thankfully the doctors didn't even pay attention to the latter, but more of the former.

Now how do you treat someone who has his/her jones on for opiates when they don't want to be treated? and my apologies if my wording offended you..not my intent... I just try to cut to the chase and not beat around the bush and use euphemisms.

Specializes in Med-Surg/Neuro/Oncology floor nursing..
I've been working on a 30-bed orthopedics unit for a little under a year...so I am very familiar with pain assessments. I had a doc explain to me that bone pain is one of the worst types of pain and I took that to heart. Many of our patients come out of surgery with epidurals, perineurals, PCA pumps (dilaudid, fentanyl), Q pumps, around-the-clock pain med administration, etc. But I worry sometimes about causing low BP and respiratory depression. In our older patients I have that fear of delayed renal function. I once administered PO pain med and then breakthrough IV pain meds as well as oxycontin, to a patient post-op day #1 hip replacement; she was a&ox4, RR WNL. She also received BP meds in the AM; her BP and HR were WNL. But then the physical therapist came to get her out of bed and her BP plummeted. We put her in reverse Trendelenberg and bolus-ed her. Fortunately her LOC didn't change throughout. But it really worried me about administering pain medications in addition to BP meds & PT. Any advice or tips or experiences regarding safe pain medication administration? Thanks!

Where I work we also have patients with PCA pumps and around the clock IV and or oral pain meds...especially some elderly people that have fallen and have gotten a TBI as a result..it's a fine balance with the pain meds and the blood pressure issue. I know it's not much of a tip, but a couple of co-workers on my floor carry a vial of narcan with them at all times...and they've had to use it more than a few times for the very reason, of a bottomed out BP or respirations or both...after that happens we get the MD to re-write for a lower dose and hope that helps...discontinuing all pain meds is inhumane of course especially if they are fresh from surgery...were on narcotics BEFORE the surgery long term..the narcan is really going to hurt them unfortunately...it's a necessary especially with someone who's never had an opiate history before and they come out with a PCA...I know some of our surgeons and anesthesiologists tend to be more liberal with the pain meds, which most of the time is a good thing..but sometimes patients have a low tolerance for the meds and it backfires.

It's not our place as healthcare providers to decide what a patient's pain really is. We need to look at our patients as whole people and assess carefully.

This kind of theories are written for us by those who wants us to be primitive drug pushers...

Specializes in lots of different areas.

Steve, I agree with you 100% I think it all boils down to people doing these studies and the ones who invented the pain scales sit in a different world (non clinical) I would like to see a pain scale that includes the nurses assessment. The problem with our society is that we feed the addictions and everyone knows it. Luckily some of the doctors I work with listen to me and value my opinion. Some don't. Anyways, with the psych eval and EDO, that person will be back next week for the same problems. The hospital is a safe haven for homeless, socially inept drug addicts.