MSN for Non-nurses, your opinion...

Nurses General Nursing

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I know that I am setting myself up for some serious criticism in this forum, but what do you think of NP programs for people who are not yet nurses? Since I have 2 sisters who are RN's I have gotten their opinions on the subjects, both positive and negative. I have been accepted to various two year and three year programs, but have not made any definite plans.

Please let me know what your take on this is.

Thanks,

Patty

Fergus51

RNs don't like these programs because we have lttle practical experience as floor nurses, but a lot of intelligence. Most of us went to highly ranked schools (some from the Ivy League). We're young, bright, and walk out of school with the ability to write orders that RNs must follow. It pisses RNs off. Its a personal thing and has little to do with our actual ability to do the job.

This post will irritate some people, but its the way most of us see it. Its also pretty obvious by the way most RNs respond. The anger is so apparent in the posts.

This "Chip on the shoulder" is so evident with a lot of RNs, especially towards us. It doesn't even matter how much we respect RNs that have practiced for so long...they don't respect us. I find that lack of respect towards us unfair and not warranted. We do a good job.

Chris-FNP

Have you ever considered that it is statements like these that bother some of us RNs and not the fact that we are pissed off that you are intelligent and can write orders?

I for one am glad if you're smart and went to a good school and provide good care. My objection to these programs has never been about jealousy or being pissed off that you can do something I can't (in the same way I don't hate surgeons because they can perform operations because if I had wanted to do that I would've gone to med school). It had nothing personal. (I have also never taken orders from NPs because they have basically no power where I work now so this can't be the reason)

The only thing I didn't like was a lack of experience, which is a legitimate concern. I am not saying you aren't a fabulous NP, because I have never seen you practice. You may be the best damn NP in the world. I am saying that going into the workplace with the attitude that whenever an RN disagrees with your program or your practice it is because she has a chip on her shoulder is narrowminded and stereotypes us. This might BE the reason why they seem to have a chip on their shoulders. Personally, I tend to be anooyed when someone assumes I am only in nursing because I couldn't succeed in what I really wanted to do. I LOVE my job. And I give respect to those who give me respect. PERIOD.

Originally posted by Chris-FNP:

Fergus51

RNs don't like these programs because we have lttle practical experience as floor nurses, but a lot of intelligence. Most of us went to highly ranked schools (some from the Ivy League). We're young, bright, and walk out of school with the ability to write orders that RNs must follow. It pisses RNs off. Its a personal thing and has little to do with our actual ability to do the job.

This post will irritate some people, but its the way most of us see it. Its also pretty obvious by the way most RNs respond. The anger is so apparent in the posts.

This "Chip on the shoulder" is so evident with a lot of RNs, especially towards us. It doesn't even matter how much we respect RNs that have practiced for so long...they don't respect us. I find that lack of respect towards us unfair and not warranted. We do a good job.

Chris-FNP

Fergus51,

Statements like the ones I made are in response to the crap we have to deal with in the first place. If we want to get childish about it, we could say "You started it." We never went into the profession to get looked down upon by experienced RNs. We just followed our hearts and entered a program that we found to be quite appealing. In doing so, we have been met with criticism by other nurses. We never started anything with anybody!!! It was the experienced RNs that opened their mouths first. Personally, I don't appreciate it. Also, I don't think that some of my statements are that far off from the true reason why some RNs don't like us.

Chris-FNP

To Patty, Chris, Chas and any other SUpportive Healthcare Providers,

I to am entering a 3 year MSN program and am considering the post cert. NP program. I am very excited to continue my education and know that I will be an asset to the nursing profession with my past experiences and education. I am encouraged that their our others out there that want to provide the same level of care in a positive and healthy environment.So lets not be discouraged by so much of the negativity that is posted on this board. We all can control our destiny and it is what we make of it!!! Those who are interested please e-mail me I would love to hear from you regarding your experiences in your MSN programs.

To Patty, Chris, Chas and any other SUpportive Healthcare Providers,

I to am entering a 3 year MSN program and am considering the post cert. NP program. I am very excited to continue my education and know that I will be an asset to the nursing profession with my past experiences and education. I am encouraged that their our others out there that want to provide the same level of care in a positive and healthy environment.So lets not be discouraged by so much of the negativity that is posted on this board. We all can control our destiny and it is what we make of it!!! Those who are interested please e-mail me I would love to hear from you regarding your experiences in your MSN programs.

To Patty, Chris, Chas and any other SUpportive Healthcare Providers,

I to am entering a 3 year MSN program and am considering the post cert. NP program. I am very excited to continue my education and know that I will be an asset to the nursing profession with my past experiences and education. I am encouraged that their our others out there that want to provide the same level of care in a positive and healthy environment.So lets not be discouraged by so much of the negativity that is posted on this board. We all can control our destiny and it is what we make of it!!! Those who are interested please e-mail me I would love to hear from you regarding your experiences in your MSN programs.

Chris,

I believe you when you say you have had to deal with crap. But I just had to say, some of us don't have chips on our shoulders even if we disagree with you. And pointing out that we do, or assuming that we do won't help eliminate the crap you have to deal with. "You started it" won't help either because I don't thik I am responsible for the actions of others. All we can do is act how we decide we should. Some of us even- GASP! - respect advanced practice nurses and RNs alike.

Let's face it: nursing is very class conscious. NP, CNA, CRNA, MSN, BSN, RN, ADN, LPN, CNA, new grad..... everyone of them has to deal with crap from the others at some point (and the crap flies in ALL directoins).I guess I just wanted to reassure you that we aren't all catty or jealous or whatever, and if I worked somewhere with you I wouldn't be giving you crap because of your program. I would if you told me I had a chip on my shoulder though wink.gif

Seriously, I am glad that someone who obviously has such a passion for this profession is in it.

Originally posted by Chris-FNP:

Fergus51,

Statements like the ones I made are in response to the crap we have to deal with in the first place. If we want to get childish about it, we could say "You started it." We never went into the profession to get looked down upon by experienced RNs. We just followed our hearts and entered a program that we found to be quite appealing. In doing so, we have been met with criticism by other nurses. We never started anything with anybody!!! It was the experienced RNs that opened their mouths first. Personally, I don't appreciate it. Also, I don't think that some of my statements are that far off from the true reason why some RNs don't like us.

Chris-FNP

MAN! Did you catch all the typos in my post? I hope every one doesn't think that my education was lacking and no longer show me any respect. wink.gif

Fergus51,

Statements like the ones I made are in response to the crap we have to deal with in the first place. If we want to get childish about it, we could say "You started it." We never went into the profession to get looked down upon by experienced RNs. We just followed our hearts and entered a program that we found to be quite appealing. In doing so, we have been met with criticism by other nurses. We never started anything with anybody!!! It was the experienced RNs that opened their mouths first. Personally, I don't appreciate it. Also, I don't think that some of my statements are that far off from the true reason why some RNs don't like us.

Chris-FNP

Fergus51,

I guess passion can be a double-edged sword. I understand what you are saying. Maybe a lot of what I said does not apply to you. I still think that a lot of RNs have chips on their shoulders, but not you. Peace.

Chris-FNP

The point Chris-FNP made earlier is valid in my setting, anyway. With the exception of the initiation of narcotic meds, RN's must take medical orders from the NP's. I have no supervisory authority over them, in fact, I don't work in the nursing department, I work in medicine. I have been dealing with one pebble in my shoe who has been particularly nasty to me since I began my job. She is an older RN, and is totally put off by the fact that she must accept medical orders from another RN.

Today, I made a medical decision to discontinue a drug which had some rather negative side effects on a particular patient [tachycardia and palpitations in a patient with severe ASCVD and unstable angina], which, after the fact, I discussed the case with both of my supervising physicians--who agreed I made a very wise decision. However, this particular nurse didn't like it. She screamed something to the effect of 'I've been taking care of these patients long before you got here!' and continued to carry on- loudly for quite some time [i did let the nurse manager know that she may want to do something because patient's families were begging to look out into the hall to see what the yelling was about].

The moral of my story-- it's what I call the 'curse of the NP.' We have a foot in each door [nursing and medicine] and each is trying to close the door on us. I don't care how diplomatic we try to be about it, there is still a group [mind you a group, not all] of nurses out there who resent us. Also there is a group [not all, but a group] of physicians that resent us as well.

What is the answer??? I don't know. But this phenomenon does exist. If anyone has a solution, please pass it on.

Tim,

You said it perfect. NPs definitely have one foot in each door...nursing and medicine. In my personal experience, I find that MDs tend to have a lot of respect for us. In my case, I am only 28 and look a lot younger. Older nurses probably think I am too young to be a good NP.

There is a nurse that works at a small health clinic that I did some of my clinical rotations at. I also am a patient there with one of the docs. She liked me until I started my rotations there. From the first day, she made it quite evident that she had no respect for the fact that I would one day be an NP. She is close to 60. This is the type of thing that irritates me. I respected her, but it didn't matter. She was against everything I represented. The day I asked her to do an EKG for me was a nightmare!!! She got all upset and one of the MDs told her off and said "Do it." I had no problem doing it, but I was busy seeing patients as an NP. I just didn't have the time. She, as an older RN, had a real problem taking an order from a young NP. I can understand, but if an RN doesn't like it, then accept the fact that this is the way it is...or become an NP!!! Apply to schools, deal with the big loans, and take on a new role. Its that simple.

I'm not an NP to just give orders, I'm just doing the job I was educated to do. Writing orders is a part of the job.

Chris-FNP

[This message has been edited by Chris-FNP (edited March 30, 2001).]

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