lowering standards R/T shortage - page 2
I have been hearing many stories lately about how nursing instructors/nursing programs are being asked to lower the "scales" to pass more students directly due to the nursing shortage. Has... Read More
Nov 14, '02Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 271; Likes: 7Scary to think they are uisng an open admission policy for nursing school in some community colleges. When I started AN ADN program at a university medical center where they also had a BSN,MSN, PHD programs the criteria for admissions was extremely hard, approx. 60 were accepted out of a pool of 450, many already had 4 yr degrees and some masters. However that program, which lasted for 25 years, is now gone because they felt it was not appropriate to award an associates degree at a university. I can see their point, I also went back and now am completing a RN/BSN degree from that university. In contrast to what I see down the street were they have community college nursing program that has an open door policy, you just get on a list, they are accepting classes as big as 150-160 student and to no one surprise they loosing up to 40% by graduation time. The other scary thought is with nursing as a profession being looked down upon by many college students because of the work conditions, lack of autonomy, and dirty work associated with it. That the only place that seems to be increasing in enrollment is at the community college level, when I talk to new BSN grads and I meet them all the time where I work, they tell me that most of them are already realizing they don't want to do bedside nursing and they are planning to go to grad. school. WHy? Because you can't keep selling nursing as a real profession to college educated people who could work in other college educated professions. Woman today have to many other options, hence if nursing does not improve its image I predict you will continue see a decrease in university students and an increase in community college students. Why? Because most community college students are not seeking a traditional college profession, they are looking for a secure job that pays twenty something an hour and has benefits. And the trueth is I think they will be able to perform most of the bedside nursing jobs very well. Maybe we have tried to make bedside nursing into something it was not intended to truly be? I know one thing, I did not need a four year degree to do the aid work and clerk work that I am expected to do in the ICU I work in. What about the critical thinking skills needed to do the tech. aspects of the job? Good point, but that is exactly my point, if a person is smart enough to perform in that capacity, he/she will not settle also having to do nurses aid work, function as a clerk, and be a waiter for the patient and family. And that is what I see with many of the new BSN GRAD.s they are looking at the job description and saying "you got to be kidding", other woman who went to universities are practicing, medicine, law, accounting,ect. Nursing has to change, woman have too many other avenues beside teaching or nursing today. And I am not even a female but I realize it from my limited time in nursing.
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Anthony - excellent post.
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Worrywort Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 1,349; Likes: 16I was really getting at the lack of science in my course. Sure, they even labled one class this semester something as hopeful as "pharmacology", but it fell far short of delivering. We have not had any formal, pathophysiology, drugs and drug interactions........................you see where it's headed don't you? Medical knowledge is not important in this school. We are only concerned about turning nursing into "psychosocialism", only the real touchy-feely subjects like, spirituality, therapeutic touch, communication, assessing thier response to stress and what role the family, job, religion....etc serves in the disease process. what's next semester, are they going to teach us to prance?......like we mean it. Maybe some yoga, or chaukra blockages?
Yup.......so what. Maybe a few classes on that crap and then concentrate on something medical................it is a
hospital ya know!
Now I would suspect to find all this in a degree in social work. I would have even expected some in a degree for someone that works in a hospital, but it has been almost a full semester and there is no end to the cutesie curicculum.
That is dumbing-down of the profession, or at least holding it back in Nightengaleistic theorem.
That's why I think nursing is experiencing an image problem.
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Peeps, I'd be interested to know what your school's documented educational philosophy is. Do they have a website that you'd care to share? Why not transfer out of that program and find one more suitable?
It surely sounds like your school is somewhat an exception rather than the norm, though.
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Nursing Professional Development + Academic Faculty Specialty: 38 year(s) of experience in Nursing Professional Development ; Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 13,464; Likes: 25,094To MICU RN: Great post. I am a woman nurse with 25 years experienced and all the graduate degrees to go with it. I agree 100% with what you wrote.
Back in 1965, the ANA tried to separate the ADN's from the BSN's by referring to the ADN grad as a "technical" nurse and the BSN grad as a "professional" nurse. Other people have argued for a pay differential for the different levels of education along with differences in duties, eligibility for promotion, etc. However, over the years, that philosophy has been very unpopular because it is considered elitist. -- and because the ADN grad is, as you say, quite capable of performing as a bedside staff nurse.
Back in 1965, the ANA leaders understood that professional nursing needed to be at the same level (educationally and in job duties) as other college degree opportunities for women if we were to continue to attract a sufficient number of talented, career-oriented people. It's a shame people couldn't see that they were right. Now we are paying the price.
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Worrywort Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 1,349; Likes: 16Suzy,
This excerpt from the Nursing philosophy section ought to about cover what this semester has seemed like.
Consumers of the health care delivery system are integrated, bio-psycho-social, dynamic beings with actual or potential human needs in five areas: physical, pharmacological, nutritional, rehabilitational, and psychological. Individuals function interdependently at varying levels, responding to environmental stressors through the process of adaptation. Nursing intervention aims to assist toward positive adaptation throughout the life cycle within a multi-cultural society.
I am going to stop out to finish some prerequesites for the RN this year. If I can get another nursing school to share exactly what they are teaching, and I can confirm that this is not the foundation for it but rather just part, then I will transfer.
I wouldn't even mind doing 101 over.........really
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Hmmm... Peeps...yikes. It seems that they are attempting to deliver the same message of nursing as other schools, but with a different "twist" so to speak. It sounds very Rogerian (Martha Rogers).
This is interesting to me because, in my philosophy courses now, they tell us to look at a nursing's school philosophy in order to determine if we can feasibly work there as educators. So...with yours I'd read it and probably think..Hmmm...doesn't seem to fit with *my* philosophy of nursing, therefore, I move on.
If you look at other schools, Peeps, yes, make sure you check them out. And I agree, your quote you pulled out should have a place in the curriculum, but not an entire curriculum based on it.
Ack. Good luck.
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Worrywort Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 1,349; Likes: 16I just didn't know how much that played into the program. I would have seen that before I knew how it would be used and thought nothing of it.
I think I need to ask to see some of thier study guides at any prospective program.
I had the impression that this is why there are not more men in nursing schools. I also figured that this would be an across-the-board basis for the curicculum, but I only had one school's content to go by.
So, to avoid this trap at another school, whom do you think I should talk to? I think the best way to judge the curicculum is by viewing one block of classes, and looking at the main themes.
I would start by looking at each school's philosophy and/or mission statement, usually posted on a website or in a handbook or something. The philosophy will usually start by agreeing with the larger university's mission, and then will add it's own related to the school of nursing.
Sometimes you can figure out from that what they are basing their curriculum on. Or, look at courses and the objectives. It's tough to figure this stuff out, especially when schools aren't open about these things.
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Nursing Professional Development + Academic Faculty Specialty: 38 year(s) of experience in Nursing Professional Development ; Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 13,464; Likes: 25,094Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur
This excerpt from the Nursing philosophy section ought to about cover what this semester has seemed like.
There are actually some good ideas buried in the midst of that gobledygook. But few people would ever want to get into them because of the poor way they are articulated.
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 12,715; Likes: 2I think my program has very high standards, in fact, there is talk of raising the standards.
I appreciate having instructors who "tell us like it is" out in the nursing world, that is important to me b/c some of the things we are taught in the classroom are so different in the clinical setting !
I don't want sugar coated material, psychosocial babble..
Nov 14, '02Occupation: Worrywort Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 1,349; Likes: 16llg,
Gobbeldygook obstructing cognition; r/t trying to sound intelligent aeb look of confusion and fear in test center.
Have student enroll in science courses to re-orient.
Make sure there are no pipes or turtleneck sweaters in student's wardrobe. Remind him that Birkenstocks are not really shoes, but rather glorified outdoor house slippers for liberal arts majors.
Replace any tea in the household with french roast coffee and provide a french press.
Correct student when he refers to "positive adaptation throughout the life cycle within a multi-cultural society" and coach him to simply say "discharge to social services"
Nov 14, '02Occupation: ER nurse Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 157; Likes: 101I feel so lucky. I started my diploma program in 1971. Before we were admitted we had two full days of written entrance exams (in addition to taking the SATS) along with interviews with the program instructors and director. About 50 of us were admitted. Yeah, we were all female.
Nope, we didn't have any nursing theory in school, the only theorist discussed with Maslow. And, of course, we learned about Florence, but she was never labeled a theorist. No such thing as a nursing diagnosis back then either. We did have though.
We also did had a twelve full week rotation in OR, care of surgical patients, care of medical patients, OB, peds, critical care, psych (at the local "One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest" facility), public health and nursing leadership.
I graduated pretty much knowing how to be a nurse (albeit, a novice nurse). Oh, everyone in our program got 600+ on our boards (before the NCLEX test).
Sadly, my school closed a couple of years ago after 100 years of teaching nursing. The end of an era.
And, no, we didn't have to mop floors.