Gender biasing by MD's - page 3
Ever notice how MD's treat male and female nurses differently? Example: 2nd day on the renal ranch for me, see the renal guy around before so we knew who each other was, i had my assignment, he wrote... Read More
Oct 27, '01Another female nurse here who is not timid and shy. I will ask a doctor for any order I think is appropiate for my patients. If they yell, they yell. I won't be the one standing there making an a** out of myself. Our department works with the same 10 or so family practice docs, so we know them pretty well and they know us. Sometimes, the other nurses on the unit will ask me to call certain doctors because they are afraid they will be yelled at. I had one doctor one day tell me I was stupid. I told him flat to his face, "I'm not stupid, and don't call me stupid" and walked off. Spent the rest of the day ignoring him. He got the message He spent the whole day trying to make up with me. I wouldn't have given him the time of day at that point I also don't have a big problem with calling a physician in the middle of the night if the situation warrants it!! They are getting paid the big bucks!
Oct 27, '01Hi. Yes, I've seen chauvinism in my career too, but more often I'll see doctors latch on to assertive female nurses like these nurses are mother hens. The question is what does it say about a male physician when he treats women in a disrespectful way?
Oct 27, '01Interesting discussion going on here, hope I don't offend anyone! In my previous job (med-surg nurse in a large teaching hospital) I found residents coming to me and other males all the time when things needed to be done, whether it was my patient or not. Probably there was some sexism involved, but what can you do? Help the patient and move on, I say. I am wondering how some females complain about this, but when there is heavy lifting or moving a patient to be done, guess who gets called first? I don't mind helping but you can't have it both ways, ladies! If we (males) are the ones you call first, then what do you expect the doctors to do? My last point is that I work and have worked with many competent, professional females and I can honestly say they do not complain about this. Maybe they just don't do it around me though, who knows?
Oct 27, '01In our small hospital, we only have one male nurse. And he works the night shift. So he doesn't have much face to face contact with doctors. We do have a surgeon who will come to the nurses he knows well and likes for certain stuff. It takes awhile to him to learn to trust the new nurses (male or female). There is a doctor in the ER who is very chauvinistic. He just doesn't like women, period. His favorite diagnosis for women is morbid obesity!! I have heard him refer to overweight women as whales and other not so nice names. The entire staff has complained to the admininstration about this doctor, but to no avail. We are told just to ignore him. UGH!!!!! This doctor is not stable at all!!!! Plus, he borders on incompetent!!!
Any suggestions on how to rid our facility of this person would be greatly appreciated!!!
Oct 27, '01
Just came off of some rough couple of twelves, so don't know how clear my opinion will be but found this thread interesting!!!!
Yes, gender biasing probably does exist, but get a grip. Is it so difficult to understand. Men, don't mean to generalize, but am generalizing...........nurses or not(those that are professional), tend to come in and do their job, seriously and with utmost confidence. Usually great sense of humour, without slashing anyone. Doctors, and anyone else see this as mature, professional and trust that person.
A female nurse that exhibits the same characteristics, treating their job seriously, and with utmost confidence, great sense of humour without slashing anyone. Doctors and anyone else see this as mature, professional and trust that person.
Instead, us women, tend to spend so much time talking about the color of our wallpaper(sorry, know I am going to get slayed over this statement and the next statement).........and talking about and against each other.............Doctors, and anyone else see this as immature, unprofessional and do not trust that person.
I am by far perfect, but I believe in treating all with respect. Including dr.'s and patients. I probably do tend to take my job too seriously, but also am finding that dr.'s do speak to me and come to me for questions and for taking orders off and for my opinions. Also, I am not afraid to venture a request for a specific treatment or order. The worst they can say is no.
Unfortunately, that is not always the case with my coworkers (all females at this time). How I choose to wear my hair that day or do or don't get into the girlchat banter, when I should focussing on my patient care.........
Sorry, I sound cynical and tired. That is all for now.........
Oct 27, '01Yes, I definitely see gender bias by MDs at work; but I'm not offended by it. I haven't ever been in to the whole sports thing, and I don't worry if the docs talk to the male nurses about sports, cars, or other things like that. As far as MDs favoring males for suggesting orders or making sure something gets done in a timely manner; I haven't seen this as much as the MD going to the nurses that he/she knows AND TRUSTS and asking them to do it without any preference for gender.
I work with one male nurse who is friendly and chatty with the MDs whom I have never seen an MD ask to make sure anything gets done: nice guy; fun to BS with: but just not trustworthy or responsible. And the docs know it.
I worked charge the other night and we had an emergency surgery return to the unit at 3AM. Haven't seen this particular on call surgeon for at least 2 years as he usually doesn't come to our hospital, but he remembered my name AND the name of the nurse caring for his new surgical pt. (okay, so we are both "old timers" here). The point is; he knew us and trusted us with his critically ill pt. He did not know some of the guys who came and helped with the initial settling of the pt., and until he knew who would be caring for his pt. he seemed a bit nervous.
I think the submissiveness of younger nurses (and yes, I was once young and submissive too) may be part of the problem; if you allow yourself to be intimidated, there are males (lets not limit this to just the MDs) who will intimidate you and there are males who won't give you the time of day. I found that when I spoke assertively with a doc; they usually listened and if they thought my suggestion was for the pt's. benefit, they almost always gave me the orders I asked for.
As far as the gender thing; men will be boys; just as women can be girls at times. And boys and girls can both be very childish sometimes.
Oct 28, '01I think that men are more likely to be upfront, offer a diagnosis and treatment plan to the docs, and have more confidence in their abilities. I also think that men are more likely to assume they know an answer when they have half the picture, and sometimes make decisions without a full assessment. I have seen men make statements of knowledge that were completely wrong, or bust into a crisis and take over when they were not the most knowledgeable.
Females are less confident, tend to suggest in a round-about way and then get pissed off when someone is frustrated, or when a doc doesn't take the hint, or doesn't respect their knowledge. They tend to hedge, if they are 90% sure they magnify the doubt to 50%. On the other side, because they are always questioning they seem to be more likely to recognize subtle signs. They tend to step back in an emergency even when it's their patient, or they are the most knowledgeable. Sometimes I think females are just generally socialized not to make the BIG decision. They look for validation of their knowledge even when they KNOW, and they need to use their knowlegde in an emergent situation.
Both kinds are frustrating (to those of us who are almost perfect). I can see that docs would find it easier to deal with someone who was upfront, and made a statement, even if that statement turned out to be wrong. I agree that with females most need to have a good relationship with coworkers before they will lay their opinions on the line, and sometimes people just don't hve the time it takes to tease information out of someone.
Oct 28, '01hi, canoehead......... thanks for the almost perfect outlook and opinion ditto!!!!! micro
Oct 28, '01deespoohbear i am man in the often over masculine ems proffesion and i can be a bit chauvanistic at times unintentionally of course (ie not allowing female partners to load patients into the ambulance). with that said i must say i was angry and appauled that your hospital allows this behavior from dr. psycho. refering to women as whales and continually falling back on the morbid obesity dx. is not only incompetent but it may prevent seriouslly ill pts. from recieving proper treatment. and will one day cost someone their life. this needs to be pursued futher and this guy needs to be prevented from the practice of medicine.
he is obviously has issues with women and this will cuase him to place a pt in danger (ie a "hysterical" woman could turn out to be an ami) you and your co workers should seek legal counsel[and i am rarely an advocate for this drastic measure]. he sounds like a lunatic that should not be ignored, but instead should be profiled by a mental health professional to be certain he ain't dangerous.
and on the issue of gender bias i have experienced this in a reversre order. i was once told by two female nurses "men do not make good nurses and i should try to goto medical school or become an rt". and as result spent three years pursuing a chemistry degree i did not want do in part to some hurt feelings and discouragement of some ladies i admired. but i am now back on track.
in closing, pooh i wish you the best of luck with this troglodyte.