Euthanasia/Spirituality

[BBelle]

I am a member of this board, but rarely post. I have a few questions that I would like to ask.

How many of you believe in Physician Assisted Suicide? I believe that a patient should have that right if there prognosis is terminal and there is no hope of recovery.

Secondly, how many of you believe in the Other Side? You know, if a patient says that they see a bright light with there loved ones waiting for them. And if you do believe, do you talk about it with your terminal patients if they ask you about it.

I firmly believe in the Other Side, I believe that when we pass away it is just our body that is gone, our spirit moves on to the Other Side, where we are happy and care free. Belle

[Jenny P]

Originally posted by SuperMan!

My position is that with the help of DNAR, Living Will, Hospice, Doc and nurses who are liberal on the pain management...etc., the patient then, can maintain their "dignity" by dying without having to resort to "kill themselves" and nurses and doctors having to deliver death. [/b]

I believe that if we keep the patient pain free (both mentally and physically), there would be no place for assisted suicide. I don't like it and I would not condone any suicide, assisted or not. I wish every person would have Living Wills and that everyone involved would honor the pt. wishes. That said, I've euthanized a pet or 2 in the past, and I'm okay with that--FOR PETS ONLY!!

I do believe that there is life after death; after being at the bedside of dying pts. there have been times when you JUST KNOW that the angels are there and that the pt. is seeing relatives who have died before them. I have told pts. to go towards the light; and they seem to smile and die so peacefully.

[sbic56, BSN, RN]

That said, I've euthanized a pet or 2 in the past, and I'm okay with that--FOR PETS ONLY!!

That only strengthens my argument for euthanasia. Why do we show more compassion to our suffering pet, than we do our own human loved ones? I, too, have been present when my pets were put down and it was awful for me, but so peaceful for them. Let me have the same if I want it!

Also, I would really much rather have a little bit left to leave my loved ones rather than to give it all to healthcare to keep me barely alive for a few more months. Losing all that has been saved over a lifetime to pay for medical bills is another tragedy in itself!

[waicurn]

I, too, have been present when my pets were put down and it was awful for me, but so peaceful for them

We say we "put down" our pets... for reasons such as? And if the pet was a human, wouldn't we at least spend a few hundred thousand dollars for such thing as an angiogram, then a triple-by-pass heart surgery followed by a week of cardiac rehab (how do you maintain sternal precaution on a dog by the way? :) )... But we don't do that for our pets because?

Because as much as we feel sentimental (some would even call it "love") and attachment toward our pets... we do not value their lives as much as human lives. That is the fundamental reason why we "put down" our pets. The reason we feel "putting them down" or, key word, euthanizing them as the "compassionate" thing to do for our pets is because a cardiac bypass is not even an option! Because their lives are not as valued.

And who will be the judge of the value of life, be it 1 day, 1 week, with pain, no pain, useful, useless, happy, unhappy... what criteria would it be? One says "the patient will judge for himself." But do we live in a vacuum? Are not our decisions constantly being influenced by the options OTHERS feel are available to us? And how are "others" basing their decisions on? Would it possibly be influenced by finances? Power? and other unspeakable, unadmitable influence?

Losing all that has been saved over a lifetime to pay for medical bills is another tragedy in itself

Adding this to the formula and looking it on a macro-economic level. We all know we are made up of 2 ever-increasing, financially divided classes. If Doctor Assisted Suicide is legal and "generally accepted" who do you think will we see being "put down" out of "compassion?" Who will not have the options of that costly future-operation with 99.9% successful rate that costs $20 millions dollars out of pocket expense?

Wow! I shudder reading this myself!

[psychonurse]

After I watched both my parents die a slow miserable death from cancer and not being able to really to make them comfortable, I do believe in some sort of assisted suicide. When my father was in the hospital he had a nurse that shut off his morphine drip cause his respirations were 10 and then he woke up and was confused and they had to restrain him for 3 days. If I would have found that nurse I would have strangled him, but finally he got tired of fighting, let us put the IV back in him and they started the drip again and he never woke up again. It was a little better with my mother but she had a stroke and she lived for 6 weeks after and by the time that she died she was skin and bones. But the last night that she was alive they started giving her medication for pain with demerol and she died peacefully with family nearby.

I also believe in the hereafter I had an experience when I was an aide of a patient that stopped breathing. I went to call the doctor, in fact I called the doctor and told him that the patient had died. I then went back to get the body ready and about the time that I walked up to the bedside she took a big deep breath and started breathing again. A couple of hours I went back to talk to her and she told me that she saw this big light up in front of her and a door appeared. She heard a voice that said " I am not ready for you yet." That really wiered me out for a while but then I really realized what the meaning was and it was for the best. That was many years ago and I still remember that vividly.

[micro, RN]

Originally posted by SuperMan!

Hi Sbic56, BBelle and everyone, I'm glad we are having a nice discussion about this topic. It's good to stretch like this once in a while. :)

Ok, I think we pretty much agree on 95% of this stuff... and the fork occurs at the point of "Being ready to die." My position is that with the help of DNAR, Living Will, Hospice, Doc and nurses who are liberal on the pain management...etc., the patient then, can maintain their "dignity" by dying without having to resort to "kill themselves" and nurses and doctors having to deliver death.

to the list above, agreement.....but remember, advance directives are much more than just DNR, and to fully have them met.(you would hope fully---either direction), very specifics in regards to care have to be designated and then backed up with a medical order.....and followed through with.........it is still a very flux situation and still very variable, but hence I repeat myself.....

[sbic56, BSN, RN]

SuperMan!

I have spent a relatively huge amount on my pets. Neuro surgery for my basset with a broken back, f/b weeks of rehab until she was able to walk again. Treatment of congestive heart failure for another dog, including meds and special diet. Pets are special members of my family that I try my best to keep alive as long as they have quality of life. All was done out of love, not "sentimentality." Sure I'd spend alot more on my people, but then they cost more to fix! But, if they stated it was time to go...then heartbreaking as it may be for me...so be it.

My point on the money spent is that if I get no quality of life from all this money spent, then please allow me to stop the madness and let me die!

[waicurn]

:) ok. i've stated basically all there i need to in expressing my view on this topic. thank you all, especially bbella and sbic56 for stirring my marbles a bid.

anybody wanna talk about genetic engineeing? kidding !! not going there just yet! :)

[micro, RN]

genetic engineering.......

that is indeed a very slippery slide, but a fascinating one.....

genetic research .......been there done that...seriously

sli

per

y

slide, but a necessary one.....

[sbic56, BSN, RN]

SuperMan!

Thanks for disagreeing with me so thoughtfully and respectfully on this tough topic!:)

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

howdy yall

from deep in the heat of texas

Genetic engineering, could be fun

doo wah ditty

[ohbet]

May a 72 yo woman,with irreparable brain damage after a cardiac arrest,who is lying in a coma and needs to be fed on a drip,have the drip stopped after 3 years so she can finally go to sleep in peace?\

There are more people than before,whether at home ,in hospital or in a hospice who can no longer bear their already destroyed life, whose indescribablee pain is not relieved even by the strongest sedatives of palliative therapy,and yet they cannot die.

Is a patient to be comforted by doctors who are boasting a having given a woman almost one hundred years old a new hip so she can go home and live for another six months?

Or is a severely burned patient to kept alive to be able to suffer another 6 months Is an electrician who fell to a high voltage cable and whose head looked like burnt cabbage ,and who was so seriously injured that he was unrecongnizable and did not even dare to show himself to his family be kept alive indefinitely by technical possibilities? Arent many people afraid not only of pain and suffering but also be being imprisoned in a tehnological medical system, afraid of total dependence and a loss of control over their own selves, drugged until they are dozy and sleepy, no longer thinking, no longer drinking ,no longer experiencing anything.

Death with Dignity? Its a joke.

If someone wants to live,let them live. If someone wants to die,let them die.

[BBelle]

Superman: Thank you for a wonderful discussion. Hope to have more with you. Belle