AS vs BSN (?)

[Rob_FL]

Hi,

Great board........Very glad I found it.

I wanted to know what some of the differences are in getting an Associates vs. Bachelors? When it comes to the RN programs.

I can only guess that there may be a difference in pay but other than that I need to turn to you folks to help me out.

Any info you can give is greatly appreciated.

Thanks again

Rob

[Q.]

Pama,

No, I was not born knowing what concept mapping was; no, I was not familiar with David P. Ausubel and his theories on Cognitive Learning and Higher-Learning concepts such as problem solving, transferring and metacognition. I was taught these in my BSN program, and now I am learning it in a different way in my MSN program. But, in my BSN program, concept mapping and Educational Psychology were taught to us in the framework as using them as teaching tools; they were NOT taught to us as means to an end - passing the boards. We didn't concept map the concept PAIN for example, as a way of helping us study more effectively. Rather than focusing on teaching us study techniques so we pass the boards, they were teaching us concepts to help us be effective teachers for our patients.

ADN and BSN programs have different areas of focus. Whether or not someone chooses whatever program depends on alot of factors; personally I would recommend the BSN program - as it will only be a matter of time before the US catches up with Canada and Europe. I certainly would NEVER discourage anyone from choosing the BSN route - I am amazed that you yourself would discourage someone from obtaining a four year college degree.

Learning psychomotor skills and touching on theories in a quick 2 year cookie cutter program - and presenting learning strategies to students rather than actual content material - is only the beginning. Even after having my BSN, and passing the boards, I am learning that there is way more to nursing than even my BSN program touched on. I am learning that nursing is NOT starting an IV.

Passing the boards is not the end. We need to set our goals higher and we need to finally raise the bar. Please, don't EVER discourage anyone from persuing a Bachelor's degree - for whatever reason.

[pama]

I have never said that I discouraged students from obtaining a BSN degree. In fact that was not the reason for this post. I am a firm advocate of the RN-BSN and if students want to start in a BSN program that is fine. We need nurses in the United States!

As far as encouraging education, our college was the first to sign an articulation agreement for an ADN-MSN program in the state. If I did not advocate higher education I would have never signed this agreement. Apparently the university believes our students have the skills, and theoretical backgroud to succeed in a MSN program or they would never have implemented the articulation.

I do take issue with your reference to ADN programs as being

"cookie cutter" approach. Students at the ADN level are taught theoretical as well as technical skills. Our graduates are extremely competent. Have you ever been to an ADN program? Have you reviewed the curriculum? Perhaps you should before you make such statements. Sounds to me you are just repeating what you learned at an "Ivory Tower" institution.

Hospitals in our area prefer our graduates than those from other schools, this includes the BSN programs. Why? Because they have the theoretical background, the critical thinking skills, and the technical knowledge to make them excellent Registered Professional Nurses.

As far as the US catching up with Canada, I do not believe we will see the BSN as the entry into practice for years. Talk about a nursing shortage, if BSN is the entry then the shortage will be gigantic.

Again, I was trying to give Rob some choices. Never did I want this to become the old "I am better than you because of the letters behind my name". We all need to work together and realize this world is big enough for all levels of Registered Professional Nursing education, ADN, Diploma and BSN.

[Q.]

Pama,

While you seem to have points, you also seem to muttle them with strange conclusions.

One of our universities as well has a ADN-BSN-MSN program, as well as a BSN-PhD program. ANY student, regardless of whether they started out with a diploma, ADN or BSN would succeed in graduate studies if given the opportunity and had the motivation to do so. No one said ADN students can't persue a MSN, however, obtaining the BSN is a stepping stone to that level that you cannot bypass. I'm sure ADN students at your technical school or community college are bright, but inherent in your praise you also undermine BSN programs, which I don't appreciate either.

Pama, ADN and BSN programs are DIFFERENT - simple as that. You so easily dismiss the BSN program and seem to advocate that the ADN covers it all and thensome. Sounds to me like your state/city doesn't value a 4 year degree, and that is very, very sad. There is more to life than nursing. Bachelor's degrees open your mind to OTHER things as well as doing monkey skills.

Yes I have reviewed ADN cirriculums and compared them to BSN programs as this is part of my graduate work. There are notable differences between the two - and you simply can't compact a Bachelor's into a 2 year community program.

If I was wrong to infer that you were discouraging Bachelor's degrees for our future nurses, then I apologize. But to me, passing the boards the first time isn't as important to me as obtaining a college degree, and also learning about history, literature and fine art. First and foremost I am a human being, and those aspects of life are just as important, if not MORE important, than nursing theories.

[EXOTIC NURSE, RN]

Well Rob, I would encourage you to get your BSN; in my opinion, I feel that would be the best way to go......I am now pursuing my BSN and I am an ADN. I started from LPN to RN and now on to BSN then to MSN NP I had to do the stair steps as I have a family and I needed to work and go to school. BSN opens the doors for opportunities not allotted to ADN's and I have a strong feeling as well that soon BSN will be the only entry into nursing. I am in favor of BSN being the only entry into nursing as I feel the higher educational level will help the nursing profession gain the respect and higher wages so deserved. Not to say ADN's are lesser and not to say BSN 's are greater. The ADN program is not a cake walk and being that both the ADN and the BSN nurses take the same boards then hooray for the ADN programs !!!! I am one not to judge anyone who feels ADN is the stopping stone for them but I know it is not the stopping stone for me and my situation. So reach deep down inside your own thoughts and decide what benefits you the most at this point and time ADN or BSN and then go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hummingbird1]

Hello Rob,

Have you considered the University of Miami? I know they have a good reputation for Nursing.

I am a diploma grad from 1985, currently finishing up my BSN and onto grad school this June. I hope to earn my PhD from U of M in a few more years.

If you can finish your pre reqs early, an ADN program traditionaly offers more clinical time. THe BSN programs have a different focus. You might want to look at the RN to BSN progams. THese are unique programs designed to meet the needs of a working staff nurse and it incorporates your experience.

Good luck with what ever path you choose. Nursing is a woderfu profession with many gifted nurses. Sincerely, Hummingbird1

[Rob_FL]

I have been looking mainly in my area, Orlando.

The only programs I know of here are University of Central Florida, Valencia Community College & Florida Hospital health sciences. They offer the RN there.

I do have a family so going to far would not work for me but sometimes you have to do what you have to do to achieve your goals. This Friday I hope to get alot of info from the University and the Comm college right near my home.

Humm-

"ADN program traditionaly offers more clinical time. THe BSN programs have a different focus."

This is what I am interested in.....I wanna see which class schedule will fit more into my life and I want to see how the classes/clinicals differ. I have a medical background so this may help me when it comes time for classes but for now I sit here in the dark wondering all about this college stuff

:)

Thanks for the replies. I am falling asleep as I write this lol.......sorry!

Peace and to all a good night!

Röb