ahh - page 3
the smell of c-diff in the morning :rolleyes:... Read More
Mar 29, '02Originally posted by judy ann
Mario, awful is the best discription, but I'll try. Sickeningly sweet with a hint of road kill, and a dash of eau de toxic dump. In other words, awful. It looks kinda like watery mustard, and comes in copious frequent spurts. Sorry, you asked for it.:imbar
:imbar :imbar :imbar judy ann you said it.....that is the smell.........
Mar 29, '02Don't forget the mucusy component to C-diff. Ewwww. Never heard of treating c-diff with unasyn, as someone posted. Flagyl and Vanco are standards here.
Mar 29, '02Remember, C-diff molecules actually enter your turbibators, sinuses, and rest upon your olfactory bulbs. Learn to become one with your environment :-) The smell of C-diff is a part of you, just like the smell of "chin cheeze" or the smell of fear. Or the smell of an open field you may have run across as a child.
Mar 29, '02Dplear;
oh yes the aroma of gangrene with the visual and tactile stimuli that goes with the dressing change.........
projectile vomitting.....now there you go.........
and the old, old, occult blood as it passes from the body after all is cauterized inside........
whiff, whiff, whiff
hey grab me a salad when you go down.....got to eat a bite before my next dressing change.....hehehehehe
Mar 29, '02thisnurse:
The human colon consists of hundreds of species of bacteria that colonize it, some good and some bad. If the bad ones dominate illness ususally results, and if the good ones dominate they usually keep the bad ones under control. This is what is meant by keeping the colonic ecosystem intact; the promotion of the good bacteria in the colon.
The spores (inactive form) of C-diff are found in many places in the hospital, and when they find an enviornment suitable for growth they germinate and become active. For example, if they are on a bedside table that you touch and you do not wash your hands properly and then touch your mouth, the spores can find their way to your colon. As long as your colonic ecosystem is intact, these spores will not germinate because the good bacteria will prevent that from happening. The research I found indicated that about 5% of healthy adults are colonized with the spores of C-diff, but they are not symptomatic because the spores are not allowed to germinate and become active.
When patients are on antibiotics, the good bacteria are also killed and this sets up an enviornment suitable for the spores of C-diff that are already in the colon to germinate and produce the toxins and this is when the symptoms begin. If supportive therapy does not work, patients are treated with flagyl or vanc to inhibit the growth of C-diff, but with antibiotic therapy even more of the good colonic bacteria are killed making the environment more suitable for C-diff growth. This is why patients have relapses after flagyl and vanc are stopped. Even though flagyl and vanc help in the short term to inhibit growth, they can cause some of they active C-diff to sporulate and become inactive, and when the antibiotics are stopped they can germinate again and produce toxins.
The idea of probiotics is to help the colonic ecosystem stay in balance so even if C-diff finds its way to the colon, it cannot germinate and cause problems.
Thanks for the tip on quoting. I will try it later and see how it works. When C-diff is active in the colon, it produces a toxin which causes the inflammatory response on the colonic mucosa and this causes the loss of albumin and fluids from the intestinal cells. This makes for very liquidy diarrhea. The presence of the toxin in the stool gives it the smell. When a patient is being tested for C-diff, a stool sample is taken to the lab and evaluated for the presence of the toxin.
Mar 29, '02Two things that help to replace the normal flora after Rx therapy for C-diff are yogurt & buttermilk. If the pt will eat/drink these, get an order for them to be included on meal trays.
Mar 30, '02Dead tissue full of maggots and roaches has to be the worst thing I've ever smelled. This was both legs of a 68yo homeless man. I'm not sure which was worse, the odor or the creepy crawlies!!
Mar 30, '02Reminds me of my time in Bougainville, P.N.G. You could tell a patient who had a tropical ulcer by the smell as he/she came into the aid post. Often they didn't realise that they had one. Put me off Parmesan cheese for a few years...! Now, back to lunch!
Mar 30, '02squirrel....thanks
i know about the flora and the good and bad bacteria. also knew about the buttermilk and yeast to replace....funny, ive only seen ONE doc order an antibiotic pt yogurt with his trays.
i guess what im asking is that if we can differentiate the bacteria into types, is there a way to increase a certain bacteria that will take care of the cdiff rather than use antibiotics which kill all bacteria.
we all know people that take antibiotics when they dont need them, or take them wrong. we all know docs that order them for anything just to shut the patient up.
antibiotics are probably one of the most misused drugs.
im very cautious about taking them because someday when i do need them i want to be sure they actually work, and when i do take them i always get a yeast infection.
im fond of my good bacteria...i dont want them to die....lol
thanks for the info
Mar 30, '02thisnurse: the concept of probiotic therapy is to increase the colonization of the gut with the good bacteria so that the bad bacteria (such as C-diff) are competively inhibited from growing. If probiotics are used in someone who is prone to C-diff (weakened immune system, malnourished, critically ill ect.) then even though the C-diff spores have colonized the gut in the patient, they will not be able to germinate and cause symptoms because of the presence of the good bacteria that were introduced by the use of probiotics. As long as C-diff bacteria remain as spores, the patient will not get C-diff infection and symptoms. So in this case, probiotic usage can control C-diff without the use of antibiotics. I have read studies that used probiotics to successfully treat C-diff infection and prevent relapses.
Regarding using yogurt and buttermilk, only certain strains of probiotics have found to be successful in treating both C-diff and ulcerative colitis. These strains are not normally found in dairy products in the US, so I doubt that routine use of them in hospitals in the US will help with C-diff infection. However, they may have some utility in promoting the balance of the colonic ecosystem but more studies should be done. All probiotic products are not created equal, and out of the many available today only a few have been tested in double-blind controlled studies. It is a buyer beware situation.
If a probiotic product is used in the hospital, it should be one that has proven clinical effects.