6 weeks into school, I got stuck and i don't know what to do

TracyB,RN, RN · Sep 28, 2002

Holy GOD!!!! I just can't even believe that I actually read that something so preventable happened. What an IDIOT instructor. Was her head not screwed on tight enough or what?!?!?!?

The school that I went to had us sign waivers as part of the admission process, that we would accept financial responsibility for ANY medical expenses that may occur due to a needlestick or some other unforeseen event like that.

Fortunately I have (knock on wood) only been stuck witha clean needle.

globalRN · Sep 28, 2002

Quote:

The school that I went to had us sign waivers as part of the admission process, that we would accept financial responsibility for ANY medical expenses that may occur due to a needlestick or some other unforeseen event like that.

TracyB,RN

TracyB,RN: I don;t know if such a waiver is signed by all schools; heck, that is why the schools carry insurance!! That seems kinda

tough, sticking it to the student!(no pun intended)

However, the main thing to remember is that IT READS UNFORSEEN EVENTS...from all of us here on this board what the moron of an instructor told the students to do....was just a needle stick injury waiting to happen. Besides, there is definitely negligence here....she had a duty to protect the students and failed dismally(any reasonable nurse would NEVER have advised the students to do what she advised)AND AS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE, there was an injury which neccessitates immediate and perhaps long term followup and care.

Oh yeah, I 'd want a copy of my medical record and test results. The doctor should have tested for anti-HAV, HbsAg, HbsAb, anti-HCV and HIV testing. HIV retesting in 6 months and I am not sure about HCV but would need f/u too perhaps at the same time.

This instructor should be reported to the BON.....what an idiot.

This is really scary if this is the caliber of teacher teaching nursing. Shame on the school for not dealing directly and immediately with this issue and giving you more to worry about at this stressful time. They could take a page about ethical handling of negative news from J & J over the Tylenol poisoning case. How about a little more 'walk the walk' when it comes to caring for each other as nurses!!!

__________________

CaliNurse · Sep 28, 2002

Sarah, (A few resources for you)

I wish I was there in person to help you. I tried to get a copy of the inservice we had last week and the Infection Control Practioner at my facility told me it was on the CDC website. It would be easier for you to read it from there vs. me sending it to you.

This is the name of the publication: "Updated U.S. Public Health Service Guidelines for the Management of Occupational Exposures

to HBV, HCV, and HIV and Recommendations for Postexposure Prophylaxis". Dated June 29th,2001. Since that date there are no new recommendations for follow up exposure.

Here is the web address "http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/rr/rr5011.pdf". It is a PDF file. You will need Adobe on your computer to read it. Let me know if you need help with that. The publication is 67 pages long.

Pg.8.

In the occupational setting, multiple doses of HBIG initiated within

1 week following percutaneous exposure to HBsAg-positive blood provides an estimated 75% protection from HBV infection ( 47-49).

Pg. 20.

Employers are required to establish exposure-control plans that include postexposure follow-up for their employees and to comply with incident reporting requirements mandated by the 1992 OSHA bloodborne pathogen standard ( 2). Access to clinicians who can provide postexposure care should be available during all working hours, including nights and weekends. HBIG, hepatitis B vaccine, and antiretroviral agents for HIV PEP should be available for timely administration (i.e., either by providing access on-site or by creating linkages with other facilities or providers to make them available off-site). Persons responsible for providing postexposure management should be familiar with evaluation and treatment protocols and the facility's plans for accessing HBIG, hepatitis B vaccine, and antiretroviral drugs for HIV PEP.

pg 21

If an occupational exposure occurs, the circumstances and postexposure management should be recorded in the exposed person's confidential medical record (usually on a form the facility designates for this purpose) (Box 1). In addition, employers should follow all federal (including OSHA) and state requirements for recording and reporting occupational injuries and exposures.

pg. 25

When HBIG is indicated, it should be administered as soon as possible after exposure (preferably within 24 hours). For exposed persons who are in the process of being vaccinated but have not completed the vaccination series, vaccination should be completed as scheduled, and HBIG should be added as indicated.

pg35 has other web addresses of resource agencies including one that guides the mangament of post exposure followup.

pg 49. appendix B Management of Occupational Blood Exposure

2 more agencies to look up on the web -

National Surveillance System for Health Care Workers (NaSH) and the HIV Postexposure Registry

RNConnieF · Sep 28, 2002

Sarah,

Have you looked at a new school? This should NEVER have happened. At every facility I have worked at recapping would get you fired. Your instructor is not fit to be working with students, your school should have gotten rid of him/her 20 years ago when recapping was banned, and your program director is right now sitting in a lawyers office not sure how to deal with the situation, that's why he/she hasn't gotten back to you yet. You desirve better than this. Get thee to a new school.

globalRN · Sep 28, 2002

Quote from RNConnieF

Get thee to a new school.

Oh yes, I definitely think that is a good idea.

CaliNurse · Sep 28, 2002

sarah,

as for my personal opinion,

you are not at fault for any part of it

your instructor instructed you to do this.

you instructor is guilty of the following:

neglect, noncompliance with standard/universal precautions, noncompliance with the hospital's and your school's infection control policies, endangering his/her students, incompetence, stupidity, ignorance, i could keep going on and on.

i can't believe this! anyone reading this please remember this - if you ever get stuck save the sharp they can test that also. they don't need a consent to test a sharp. once the sharp exposure happens immediately stop what you are doing and wash the area with soap and water. if it a mucous membrane wash with water for 10 -15 minutes. then straight to the er.

i hope your instructor somehow finds enough brains to stumble onto this web site so he/she find out how stupid all of us thinks he/she is.

once a year i hold the flu vaccine for my hospital. i get to inject everyone. i usually don't have a sharp container in my office but i get one for this. he should have made sure you had one if not two. the type of lancets you used are now not used in facilities or by health care workers in 2002. where these lancets supplied by the hospital or school?

if it was me i would take them to court. i am not one who usually thinks legal action should be the first step but this is like practicing nursing from some other time zone. this is like a truck driver running out of gas. this is as crazy as sending ice to the north pole. this is like surgery without gloves. what the **** ?

i would keep a journal and write down a daily entry of your anxiety, stress, and health. this means something to judges.

i would demand that my medical care is paid for 100%. i would demand that my sharp exposure is added to their sharp exposure list required by (i think) osha. if they became shi**y with me i would demand that my education be paid for also !!!

i think some people think it is common for nurses to be stuck. i todays world with all of our safety syringes, safety iv start cannulas, safety lancets it is not as common as it once was.

compare to my peers i am a new kid on the block but i have been a nurse for 12 years. i have never been stuck by a sharp.

the number one rule once you recap it throw the cap in the trash!

take you meds, start a journal, get a malpratice attorney now, with pen/paper in hand come monday morning i would be demanding to see the very most top gun at your school. don't take no for an answer. take down names and titles and what they are telling you. scare the crap out of them. demand that instructors resignation. there may be a reason why he/she is not in bedside nursing anymore. if they get an attitute with you or speak to you like you are just a student remind them that your tuition pays for their salary. remind them of words like "osha, jcaho, dhs (health department), cdc, newspapers, tv news, radio stations & contact your congress man/woman. you are not only doing this for you but for every new nurse that comes after you who may be put in the same situation.

sarah keep us updated.

cali,

Youda · Sep 28, 2002

Originally posted by RNConnieF
Sarah,
.... and your program director is right now sitting in a lawyers office not sure how to deal with the situation, that's why he/she hasn't gotten back to you yet. You desirve better than this. Get thee to a new school.

Yeah, I thought that was probably why she couldn't get hold of anyone on a Friday, too! They are busy trying to figure out how to cover their butts! And didn't want to talk to her until they had all the same answers!

Youda · Sep 28, 2002

I just thought of something else. The school won't just be worrying about legal liability! They are worrying about their accreditation! I checked with my BON's website, and something like this, if reported to the BON in your state, would cause the school to be surveyed, and the entire program put under the microscope. Bottom line is that they could lose accreditation, especially if there have been other incidents that you may not be aware of.

Another weapon for you to use if they give you any crap! And, as someone else suggested, if you don't transfer to another school, then at least demand NOT to do clinicals with that instructor. Some reasons are obvious, but she could also give you a rough time or try to weed you out of the program to protect herself.

beaRNwhenIgroUP · Sep 28, 2002

i know i've already said this...y'all are so great! when i go back to school monday i am going to feel so confident and ready to stick up for myself...thank you so much!!!

sarah

beaRNwhenIgroUP · Sep 30, 2002

well...i just talked w/ the director of the program. she says students have to pay our own medical bills you know "if we had to pay for needle sticks we'd never be able to run the school"

so, i said "what about the fact that we were not given the proper saftey devices?"

she said "well when the sharps container was there, it was your choice to pick the sharps out of the glove"

(e.g. i offered to do it)

when i mentioned that i am taking antiviral drugs and that i don't want to put them on my insurance because if i do i'll never get life insurance

she said - well they gave you the option of not taking them, right? they didn't tell you that you have to take them...

so - i gave up & hung up and came here...what is my next step????

sarah:angryfire

Youda · Sep 30, 2002

A personal injury attorney. That's your next step.

They said, "students have to pay our own medical bills"

Answer: Not when the school CAUSES an injury.

They said, "if we had to pay for needle sticks we'd never be able to run the school"

Answer: So this happens so often? Would accreditation and OSHA want to know how often this happens?

They said, "it was your choice to pick the sharps out of the glove"

Answer: I was following the example set by my instructor who was picking sharps out of the gloves.

They said, "Well they gave you the option of not taking them, right?"

Answer: So are you suggesting that it would be preferable to get HIV or Hepatitis?

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Sarah, I am furious for you. I thought of you several times over the weekend, and I'm so glad you posted an update. I'm gonna have to leave it to some of the others for ideas on what to do next. All I can think of is an attorney. Not only is this jeapordizing your health, but your education now as well. I think that's too great of a potential loss to just let it go.

I'm worried that they are going to give you crap all the rest of your program, because they're making it out like you're too blame, and that's going to show up in subtle ways from now on in this program.

Is there anything those of us following this thread can do for you to help beyond advice?

Youda · Sep 30, 2002

Sitting here thinking . . .

Start a journal and write down as many details as possible, including what you are feeling. Be sure to include every attempt you made on Friday to talk to someone. Record as much detail as you can from the phone call with the director of the program. Include names, date and time, telephone numbers, etc.

Do not speak to them again. If you feel you want to say something to them, do it in writing.

No matter how responsible you may feel at times, do NOT ever admit to any blame.

Wow. I am having a profound need to go tell someone off or wring someone's neck!