3 year contract? - page 2

I am a fairly new nurse. Currently, I am working per diem at a facility. It is great but they aren't looking to hire anyone full time in the near future. I am really needing a full time job so I have... Read More

  1. by   JDCitizen
    Contract or agreement or whatever it is called if not put together by the hospitals legal department probably has been reviewed by them. The cards are probably stacked in their favor.

    Having to pay them back for orientation and extra training is an easy statement to make the big question you should be asking is dollar amounts... They can value training at almost any price level.

    3 year contract sound similar to a military contract and at least with the military you get health insurance, housing, etc, etc...

    Unless your desperate: Don't sign.
  2. by   RNMariposa
    Quote from SarahBeth
    Is this Dartmouth-Hitchcock by any chance?

    No it isn't
  3. by   2BSure
    I repeat...

    Quote from 2BSure
    If there is something about clawing back funds for training you must be sure to know how they are assigning a value to training etc. Also, ask some nurses where you do your per diem about this place and about the contract scenario.
    This is, frankly, all moot as you haven't seen the contract. I think you have all the advice you need until you have more information.

    Are your former fellow students experiencing the same problem with lack of newish grad jobs?
  4. by   OC_An Khe
    Ask them for a copy of the contract for YOUR lawyer to reveiw. They probably won't give it to you. If they won't give you a copy then run, don't walk away from that employer. Which I would recommend doing any way.
  5. by   RNMariposa
    Quote from JDCitizen
    Contract or agreement or whatever it is called if not put together by the hospitals legal department probably has been reviewed by them. The cards are probably stacked in their favor.

    Having to pay them back for orientation and extra training is an easy statement to make the big question you should be asking is dollar amounts... They can value training at almost any price level.

    3 year contract sound similar to a military contract and at least with the military you get health insurance, housing, etc, etc...

    Unless your desperate: Don't sign.

    They gave me specifics... The orientation is regular pay rate. I would have to pay that amount back and the amount of any training they paid for me to get... as in getting certified in anything.

    Also, the health insurance is free. I wouldn't have to pay any.


    OK... let me break it down this way. Everything else they said was good. It was normal and what could be expected as far as from what I have heard from other nurses as in expectations of the job and raises and benefits, etc. Nothing else seemed out of line. The only catch was this 3 year agreement. If everything else sounds doable, would you pass on a job that made you stay for 3 years?
  6. by   RNMariposa
    Quote from 2BSure

    Are your former fellow students experiencing the same problem with lack of newish grad jobs?

    Yes they are
  7. by   Medic/Nurse
    Sorry - I don't want you to get caught on shifts, money etc,

    My point is that they have you and know that you are "stuck" so they could do just about anything. And you'd have to suck it up or leave. And since they will bill you - well, you know.

    I think you want to hear that it would be a good idea to go with it. I just cannot do that.

    3 years.
    3 years.

    Keep on keeping on and work on getting what you dream of - it will not take three years. I know that it is a tough market - but, being able to control your "destiny" is worth more that any false "security".

    They will tell you that there are no problems with anyone that came on board and signed their contract. They will tell you anything. Yet, they will give you the written promise of a contract that protects them - not you. I say don't do it. Three years could be a nightmare. They admit that they had to do this because they had many go down the block after they trained them. Let that be your lesson. When you have been treated well and given opportunities to advance your nursing practice most all will stay and keep growing - when that many have had to flee it is most likely a bigger problem that what you are being led to believe.

    They admit that exodus had been a problem and now they have a solution and it is to bind you in a contract. They solve their problem with trapping you by a contract.

    Did they give you a number or what it would cost to walk? If you can walk with super great training and experience and "pay" less than a week of salary - maybe it is worth it. Likewise, if you get ALL the training in the first 6 months and your "walk fee" goes down with ever passing month - it may have some value to you. Are these national classes or internal classes that are specific to your orientation to their facility for doing the job you were hired (contracted) to do? All jobs have an orientation phase and facilities that have to bind folks via contract should make your "Ugh-Oh" radar go off. Three years - just not worth it.

    If they do 6 months of ECCO, ACLS, Hemo - Balloon, LVAD and such classes, PALS and others it might be worth some consideration to give them a year once your "training" is complete. If it is not too expensive. Otherwise, you are just a slave (maybe a marginally paid one, but a slave nonetheless). There is a reason that others departed. Trust me - they will tell you anything.

    As for IV and PALS and other classes. They are offered at many sites. They are not cost prohibitive as a rule.

    I teach ACLS, PALS and a bunch of other classes and have never charged more than $500 and usually far less. Way less - my company even did them free to our referral areas and staffs for many years and recently instituted a fee per class policy and it still amounts to less than $50 bucks as a rule.

    I can tell you anything - but, it still is just your decision. I just hate to see NURSES taken advantage of - and to do it upfront is even worse. I say no.

    Be careful. Anything that makes you feel like this at the beginning is almost certain to be worse as time goes on.

    Good Luck whatever you choose.

  8. by   Medic/Nurse
    I see that you noted some specifics in money.

    You note "orientation" as regular pay rate as the penalty to be paid -

    well, if you are oriented for 3 months for 36 hours/week at $22/hour that is a whopping 10K+ double that and you are in for 20K. I think this is a low estimate and imagine being miserable and knowing that you have to pay back 10-30 thousand to leave. It may even be so bad - it might start to look worth it.

    I understand wanting to "get going" but that contract is just protecting an employer who noted a problem with all those terrible ungrateful nurses that we trained in the past and they left less for no good reason - it will likely bring you none of the things than you so desperately seek right now.

    I now that it is tough. They know it too.

    Three years is too long and if you leave before you will owe them tens of thousands of dollars. OMG.

    I think you should keep looking.
    What you seek is not in that contract.

    .
  9. by   RNMariposa
    Quote from NREMT-P/RN
    Sorry - I don't want you to get caught on shifts, money etc,

    My point is that they have you and know that you are "stuck" so they could do just about anything. And you'd have to suck it up or leave. And since they will bill you - well, you know.

    I think you want to hear that it would be a good idea to go with it. I just cannot do that.

    3 years.
    3 years.

    Keep on keeping on and work on getting what you dream of - it will not take three years. I know that it is a tough market - but, being able to control your "destiny" is worth more that any false "security".

    They will tell you that there are no problems with anyone that came on board and signed their contract. They will tell you anything. Yet, they will give you the written promise of a contract that protects them - not you. I say don't do it. Three years could be a nightmare. They admit that they had to do this because they had many go down the block after they trained them. Let that be your lesson. When you have been treated well and given opportunities to advance your nursing practice most all will stay and keep growing - when that many have had to flee it is most likely a bigger problem that what you are being led to believe.

    They admit that exodus had been a problem and now they have a solution and it is to bind you in a contract. They solve their problem with trapping you by a contract.

    Did they give you a number or what it would cost to walk? If you can walk with super great training and experience and "pay" less than a week of salary - maybe it is worth it. Likewise, if you get ALL the training in the first 6 months and your "walk fee" goes down with ever passing month - it may have some value to you. Are these national classes or internal classes that are specific to your orientation to their facility for doing the job you were hired (contracted) to do? All jobs have an orientation phase and facilities that have to bind folks via contract should make your "Ugh-Oh" radar go off. Three years - just not worth it.

    If they do 6 months of ECCO, ACLS, Hemo - Balloon, LVAD and such classes, PALS and others it might be worth some consideration to give them a year once your "training" is complete. If it is not too expensive. Otherwise, you are just a slave (maybe a marginally paid one, but a slave nonetheless). There is a reason that others departed. Trust me - they will tell you anything.

    As for IV and PALS and other classes. They are offered at many sites. They are not cost prohibitive as a rule.

    I teach ACLS, PALS and a bunch of other classes and have never charged more than $500 and usually far less. Way less - my company even did them free to our referral areas and staffs for many years and recently instituted a fee per class policy and it still amounts to less than $50 bucks as a rule.

    I can tell you anything - but, it still is just your decision. I just hate to see NURSES taken advantage of - and to do it upfront is even worse. I say no.

    Be careful. Anything that makes you feel like this at the beginning is almost certain to be worse as time goes on.

    Good Luck whatever you choose.


    No, I wanted to know what other nurses thought and find out what has been the experience of others. I haven't been around long enough to know if this is normal or out there. I was trying to explain what I had been told during the interview properly and the overall jist of what happened. Overall, the patient load, the job requirements, pay and benefits all sounded normal. It was just this 3 year stipulation that surprised me.

    The orientation is M-F, 8hr shifts for one month. Then she said I definitely would have to get IV and ACLS trained and then whatever other training I think I might need to get my skills up.. such as trach or whatever. But I am really OK with my skills and I don't think I need anything extra past normal orientation. She said they expect the first year to be the training year with most of it being within the first 3-6 months. Any inservices they provide to everyone doesn't count as only the training for me specifically does.

    I realize that places may tell me anything too so I didn't want to blindly listen to whatever they said and sign away. I wanted to put some thought behind it and weigh my options. Which right now consists of signing and working there or staying per diem at my other job.
  10. by   wooh
    Any hospital that can't keep it's staff with tolerable working conditions will come up with a contract. Normally I've seen 1 or 2 years. Heck, 2 years will often get a good portion to all of your tuition paid. So 3 years is just crazy, especially just to cover "orientation costs" and not even get a bonus. Now with the contract, they'll at least give you a sign-on bonus, so it appears that you get something in return. This hospital isn't even doing that. And I've never oriented without doing a good portion of work that benefits my employer, so basically, you leave before 3 years and you'll have done a LOT of work for free.
    Signs that a hospital is a place you should RUN not walk away from:
    1) Lengthy contracts
    2) Huge sign-on bonuses
    3) Day shifts that are available to new grads (and sprint not run if that day shift is on a specialty unit)
  11. by   JDCitizen
    If you get sick or injured and can't complete the contract?

    If you are going to do it at least do BLS, ACLS, PALS, etc. on your own time/dime so they can't hold those over your head.
  12. by   erroridiot
    Quote from RNMariposa
    I am a fairly new nurse. Currently, I am working per diem at a facility. It is great but they aren't looking to hire anyone full time in the near future. I am really needing a full time job so I have still been sending out resumes. I had an interview with a facility yesterday. Thje interview went well but I am at a loss as to what to do. I have semi been offered a job. The hitch is that they want me to sign an agreement to stay with them for 3 years before they will fully consider me for the position. But basically it sounded like they liked me but they would not hire me on the spot unless I signed the contract.

    What I was told about why they have that in place ( they spend a lot of money training and they don't want me to leave for something else I want to do 6 months down the road and then they are out all of the time and money training. They are saying three years because they figure the first year is trial and error and it is a learning time. The next two years they are seeing the benefits of the training) makes sense, however I wanted to ask around to see if this was a common practise?

    Should I be worried about taking a job that makes me sign a contract? They did say if I really wanted to leave before the contract was up then I would have to reimburse the facility the orientation and training monies.

    The other thing is this is the first full time position that has called me in to interview so I am a little nervous about a) not getting any other interviews and b) having someone else I really liked better call me up after I have already taken this position.

    On the plus side, I know I would learn a lot more than where I am doing my per diem work and that makes me want to say yes. But I am still torn.

    Would I feel better about it if they didn't make me sign it? Yes, I probably wouldn't have spent so much time worrying about taking the job or not if they hadn't said anything about the contract.

    What would you do?
    I would thoroughly investigate the Big Red Flag of signing this document.

    Why do they need this?

    What is their turnover rate?

    What kind of facility is it?

    When was their last survey?

    etc., etc.

    erroridiot
  13. by   pers
    I would not sign a contract that long, particularly without something more than a job being in it for me.

    Potential employees are also not the only ones capable of stretching the truth during an interview... Does the contract stipulate your working conditions (patient loads, hours, holidays, unit, etc)? Does it offer a way to deal with a hostile environment (even if it's just the ability to switch shifts or units)? If they aren't willing to put in the contract all that they are promising you during the interview even if it just sounds "normal" I would not sign it. As others have stated, there's something going on at this facility that makes a significant portion of their staff not want to work there or they wouldn't need this contract for just "normal" training that every facility is going to offer.

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