FNP program at University of southern indiana

[PRIMESTAR1]

Is anyone doing the FNP program online at USI?I wanted to know how the program is,and do we have any difficulty in finding our own preceptors.

[WitnessRN]

Tammy, you are seriously a wealth of information. If you wouldn't mind I have some more questions.

I have been accepted at both USI and ISU. The only thing that I see as a potential issue at USI is that they will not allow one to preceptor with a PA. I called around to many FP clinics and the MD's all said in this downturned economy they really can not preceptor. That they usually see 20-23 patients a day on their own but with a student the number goes to 15-18 a day. The reimbursement for MD vs FNP or PA is much higher so they do not want to preceptor. IN my area there are many more PA's then FNP's. The doctors are offering their PA's but not themselves. I have not found a FNP that is willing to give up a full patient load either as they want to maintain job security. I see that it looks like at USI that basically the clinical in the Fall and Spring would be about 120 hours each term... leaving a 300 hour clinical in the Summer. That would be a total of 540 then you add in the assessment hours and lab.

How did you present to FP offices so that they didn't see preceptoring as a burden? Especially now in this economy when many of their patients have lost insurance and are not coming in for routine healthcare. SIGH.

Also, at ISU what do you know of Dr. Mallory?

I saw on another thread that your going to go right into DNP at USI in the fall? That is wonderful. YOu will have to keep me posted on that. USI having the DNP is another huge plus to going there.

Thank you so much!

[Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C]

Tammy, you are seriously a wealth of information. If you wouldn't mind I have some more questions.

I have been accepted at both USI and ISU. The only thing that I see as a potential issue at USI is that they will not allow one to preceptor with a PA. I called around to many FP clinics and the MD's all said in this downturned economy they really can not preceptor. That they usually see 20-23 patients a day on their own but with a student the number goes to 15-18 a day. The reimbursement for MD vs FNP or PA is much higher so they do not want to preceptor. IN my area there are many more PA's then FNP's. The doctors are offering their PA's but not themselves. I have not found a FNP that is willing to give up a full patient load either as they want to maintain job security. I see that it looks like at USI that basically the clinical in the Fall and Spring would be about 120 hours each term... leaving a 300 hour clinical in the Summer. That would be a total of 540 then you add in the assessment hours and lab.

How did you present to FP offices so that they didn't see preceptoring as a burden? Especially now in this economy when many of their patients have lost insurance and are not coming in for routine healthcare. SIGH.

Also, at ISU what do you know of Dr. Mallory?

I saw on another thread that your going to go right into DNP at USI in the fall? That is wonderful. YOu will have to keep me posted on that. USI having the DNP is another huge plus to going there.

Thank you so much!

I never had a problem finding preceptors except to the extent of which one to pick. Many students, however, find this very challenging. It's trully unfortunate that even the most educated of individuals can't seem to see three steps ahead.True, the economy is depressed, which is all the more reason why effective and cost efficient primary care providers are needed.

As far as the burden of having a student, it is very much true--having a student in the beginning is a load for sure. Ironically, though, it does pay off for the preceptor in the end. For example, I picked my preceptor because he owns the largest NP owned clinic in California and the clinic sees about 100 patients per day. The other NP's, I remember when I started, said to him that they could not believe he would take on the burden of having a student. That was then and this is now. Over the last three months or so, and with another 3 months to go, I have been seeing patients with minimal oversight to the point that he pretty much reads his paper and surfs the net while we are working together until I come and get him with something I want him to see or with cases that exceed my knowledge and or experience.

One afternoon last week, I saw an entire load of patients essentially on my own and when I came in towards the end of the afternoon, to ask him to review a derm case I had, he was asleep. On top of that, my preceptor now knows he has another NP he can count on when I graduate. Now the other NP's who were there when I started a little less than a year ago, want to know how they can get a student. A good NP student is like gold to a practice. The flip side, though, a bad one could be very costly--not only in time but liablity. This, also, might serve as an impediment.

My advice is to hook up with your local NP organizations and network. This is how I found my precpeptor. Another idea is to check with the school to see where the closest contracs are regarding where you live. For example, I established 5 contracts with local agencies and preceptors in my area as back ups. Most students, although not to the extent I did, do the same. Therefore, USI and other distance ed-based schools are growing exponentially with clinical contracted facilities. You might be surprised to find out that you live within driving distance to one.

As far as total clinical hours at USI, it is 665 hours. 45 in the summer; 20 hours of lab--either x-ray, clinical laboratory observation, online labs or a combination of same; 120-140 hours in fall; 180-216 hours in spring and 240-300 hours for the last 10 week summer sesion for a total of 665 hours. The reason I list out the ranges is because the low number represents the minimum number you are required to do for that term and the higher number represents the maximum number of hours you can do that term. Also, the maximum number of WEEKLY hours you can do for fall is no more than 16 hours per week, and the maximum number of weekly hours you can do for spring is 24 hours per week. There are no restrictions for summer. Also, there are no more written tests for summer or assignments or any other stuff--just clinicals.

Deb Mallory is one of the nicest people ISU has to offer. I never had her for a class, but she saved me from joining the naval reserves a few years ago. When I graduated from ISU, I was staying at a local hotel and my rental car died. She came and picked me up and took us to dinner. This is where I got to meet Loretta Ford, the first NP who started the NP movement in the US, who later on became my mentor for my police nurse masters project. Anyway, I told Deb I was thinking of joining the reserves and since she was a commander, wanted to get her input. During the car ride she said not only to walk away, but to run. Needless to say, my spouse was completely relieved.

Correct, I've decided to do the DNP. I applied at Duke, Johns Hopkins and University of Colorado. I was told it's not a good idea to get more than one graduate degree from the same institution which is why I'm not going to USI for my DNP.

[WitnessRN]

Thanks so much Tammy. I printed that very detailed post to reference later.

I did purchase several of the books you recommended. Thanks for that too.

Okay ~ do you think it is a good idea to take some online tutorials on lab values, EKG, ect.... while waiting to get to classes and clinicals. Would it be helpful to review this stuff. I am not great with Lab Values and have been out of the ER a while so EKG is fuzzy.

I saw that Margaret Fitzgerald has several of these one hour classes. What do you think?

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and time. It is so incredibly helpful. I truly appreciate it.

[Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C]

Thanks so much Tammy. I printed that very detailed post to reference later.

I did purchase several of the books you recommended. Thanks for that too.

Okay ~ do you think it is a good idea to take some online tutorials on lab values, EKG, ect.... while waiting to get to classes and clinicals. Would it be helpful to review this stuff. I am not great with Lab Values and have been out of the ER a while so EKG is fuzzy.

I saw that Margaret Fitzgerald has several of these one hour classes. What do you think?

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and time. It is so incredibly helpful. I truly appreciate it.

Don't worry too much about the lab stuff. It is so interwoven in the last year with clinicals you won't even notice how much you have learned. If you goto USI, though, ask your clinical advisor for the handout package on anemia from the coumadin clinic lady as soon as you can. All that stuff needs to be memorized, and the quicker you can memorize it, the better off you will be. It has to do with the various forms of anemia, the causes, the tests and the course of treatment.

I bought one of the Fitgerald package deals (forgot the name of it) for about $1,000 bones or so. It includes the test banks, and about 10 other CD's and DVD's that will help for board preparation. I really like the radiology one by the pulmonologist dude. A few weeks ago they had a board presentation. The pannel highly recommended taking the live class by Fitz, so I'm going to do that too.

Curious enough, not to many people had anything good to say about AANP or ANCC who have the monopoloy on board testing and certification. Faculty took turns slamming these places as they repeatedly lost paperwork, lost documentation to support payment and generally screwed up every step of the process. On professor said she called on behalf of a student who had their paperwork lost many times and it was sitting on top of a pile with a bunch of other crap and the response by the agency was to laugh about it. Dealing with these two organizations is the only thing that bothers me about this entire process, as it appears that these organizations are running similar to a government operation. One of the pannel members said that one of the certifying organizations has an F+ BBB rating, but I haven't verified this as of yet.

[WitnessRN]

I am really struggling on whether to choose USI or ISU. I would have Mallary at ISU and Hoebeke at USI for advisors. The programs appear similiar in course work except for the dreaded stats course at ISU. How many Clinical hours do you have to have at ISU. I know at Southern it is 665.

Tammy are you able to lend any more advice on these two programs. I know not to go by the US News rankings as it is peer ranking... How do you view the quality of education at each schoo. Where would one have the best overall experience. I know you had a hard time with ISU because of the non nursing instructors...but just comparing the nursing program and nursing intructors.

I have to make the decision THIS week. It would have been better to have only applied to one... then this wouldn't be an issue.

I also notice at Southern there is not the big research paper and/or thesis required. Nor is graduate level stats...do you think that would be a problem later in trying to get into DNP?

Which online delivery system did you find worked out best? which had the best ease of use?

Again thank you so much.

[Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C]

I am really struggling on whether to choose USI or ISU. I would have Mallary at ISU and Hoebeke at USI for advisors. The programs appear similiar in course work except for the dreaded stats course at ISU. How many Clinical hours do you have to have at ISU. I know at Southern it is 665.

Tammy are you able to lend any more advice on these two programs. I know not to go by the US News rankings as it is peer ranking... How do you view the quality of education at each schoo. Where would one have the best overall experience. I know you had a hard time with ISU because of the non nursing instructors...but just comparing the nursing program and nursing intructors.

I have to make the decision THIS week. It would have been better to have only applied to one... then this wouldn't be an issue.

I also notice at Southern there is not the big research paper and/or thesis required. Nor is graduate level stats...do you think that would be a problem later in trying to get into DNP?

Which online delivery system did you find worked out best? which had the best ease of use?

Again thank you so much.

Deb is really nice and so is Bobbie. That is really a tough choice now. If it were the diference between Eley and Bobbie, it would be a no-brainer. I would double check with ISU and make sure that deb really is a MSN advisor because if she is, this is new (within the last 2 years). If it's true and you can get Deb, it really is a toss up. Remember, though, about ISU Stats professor Godzilla. Also, FYI, there is no stats course requirment at USI. Not sure if you knew that.Also, I heard that Esther is now teaching in the ISU FNP track. It that is true, that is really a good thing as she is both sharp, nice and will bend over backward for your success.

Bottom line, if I didn't have Eley setting me up for failure (told to be by another prof) I would have probably stayed at ISU, dropped the stats course with numbnut and took it stats somewhere else. Although your advisor isn't of critical importance, if they are out to get you, you are screwed. Also, the fewer courses you have with Eley and Hall (ISU--not Hall at USI) the better of you will be. For example, the ISU pharm class (back when I took it) was taught by L. Hall. Complete waste of my time. I got 99% in the course and absolutely learned nothing. I paid for that poor class throughout my clinicals because I had to constantly play catch up.

Also, another consideration is how soon you can be done. Make sure you know when you can start clinicals for both USI and ISU. Use that info to factor into your decision.

Also, make sure you find out who your clinical coordantor will be. At USI, it could be different then your academic advisor, but you will not find out until your clinical year anyway. It doesn't matter because all three of the prospects are good. If, however, at ISU they give you Eley, I'd definitley go to USI.

At anyrate, you have a tough choice to make. I'd still lean more towards USI, but that's because of the exp I had at ISU in the grad program. If you subtract the bad pharm class, the horible stats professor, the egomaniac patho guy and the advisor who was out to screw me, ISU was really a good program. The theory professor was top notch.

Good luck.

[WitnessRN]

Well, it sounds like there are a lot of potential negatives at ISU.... I may not be able to control who I get as an instructor...such as Eley. I can avoid stats with your nightmare and go to the health stats. Deb is the new chair at ISU and would be my advisor and has already called me. I didn't realize that I would have a clinical advisor too....kinda risky who one might get at ISU. You said all are good USI.

I am really leaning toward USI. I really like Dean White she is top notch. I haven't talked to Hoebeke yet...but heard she is wonderful. SHE will have 30 students to advise. I don't know how she can do it. Crazy.

What did you think of the ease of use of the online classes at USI? I think I am going to choose USI.

Thank you so much for all your advice in helping me get to this point in my decision making. Maybe one day you will be an advisor. :)

Okay....I am going to go to Southern. What can I do to make this the best for me. Any pre reading/studying. I would not start till the fall. I would start clinical next summer 2010 with assessment. Then full clinicals in the Fall '10, Spring '11 and practicum summer '11 and Done.

It is very gracious of you to help sort this out.

Thanks!

[Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C]

Well, it sounds like there are a lot of potential negatives at ISU.... I may not be able to control who I get as an instructor...such as Eley. I can avoid stats with your nightmare and go to the health stats. Deb is the new chair at ISU and would be my advisor and has already called me. I didn't realize that I would have a clinical advisor too....kinda risky who one might get at ISU. You said all are good USI.

There are a few, but remember, most (at least the ones that I keep in touch with--3) say they had really good exp. with ISU. Eley, however, is a serious problem if you draw her as a clinical coordinator--especially if she is out to get you. Just like when she recommended MacDonnald to me over the other one. Remember, when your preceptor fills out the contact evaluations, its only a recommendation for--and not the actual grade. The clinical coordinator actually makes the grade for you. I'm not sure why its like this, but I think its because of liablity.

I am really leaning toward USI. I really like Dean White she is top notch. I haven't talked to Hoebeke yet...but heard she is wonderful. SHE will have 30 students to advise. I don't know how she can do it. Crazy.

Not bad, I think Eley had 100 or so when I was at ISU. Your advisor isn't really that critical in the process like the clinical coordinator. Advisors help you get into overbooked courses by overriding the system and is someone to send you progress plans too.

The clinical coordinator, hoever, is critical. If he or she doesn't feel like your exposure is consistent with the natural progress through the program, they have the power to hold you back. What might appear as a very real and arbitrary decision is solidly backed when the coordinator claims it is necessary. This is where USI pays for itself. No matter who you draw at USI--Bobbie, Jenny, or Mellisa--there is not one mean bone in their body and they wouldn't intentionly screw you over to make them feel good about themselves. They do have, however, a deal where if your preceptor says you are not progressing, they can call you back to Indiana and have you perform your SOAPS with patients within one of their clinics. I'm sure this has happened in the past with weaker students, but I have not heard of this happening before.

What did you think of the ease of use of the online classes at USI? I think I am going to choose USI.

The main difference between USI and ISU is that USI televises classes and you can tune in on your computer and ask questions in real time. Although not mandatory, it really is a slick system they have. If you miss the live session, you can click on the .mov folder and watch. They save all of their classess and all of the handouts. I'm reviewing the entire clinical year now and it is really helping prep for boards because you can go back to any semester. ISU, by now, might have the same deal. If this is important to you as it is to me, check with them and find out if ISU has a streamed lecture service now--NOT BREEZE, they are two different products.

Thank you so much for all your advice in helping me get to this point in my decision making. Maybe one day you will be an advisor. :)

Okay....I am going to go to Southern. What can I do to make this the best for me. Any pre reading/studying. I would not start till the fall. I would start clinical next summer 2010 with assessment. Then full clinicals in the Fall '10, Spring '11 and practicum summer '11 and Done.

It is very gracious of you to help sort this out.

Thanks!

No worries. If you have trouble, always start with Berta or Franchesca. They are the gatekeepers of information. Especialy with forms and what not. Send flowers or whatnot to them around Christmas. They are often not thanked enough for what they do.

When you are assigned to your clinical coordinator, strive to develop a very special realtionship with them. Take action to make the school, and your coordinator look good. As an example, I designed a shoulder patch for FNP students for the lab jackets that will be approved for the class you are starting. Extra effort in the form of good will goes along way in developing strong and cohesive partnerships with your coordinator faculty.

Good luck

[WitnessRN]

Thanks again! Okay, I am going to choose USI. I love the streaming classes that are live. It sounds like that is the way to go if the timing works. Great to know that all three clinical coordinators at USI are awesome too. Sorry that you had a terrible time at ISU...their loss.

Very NEAT that you designed the FNP patch that my class will wear. :) So the lab jackets are they the short nursing school ones or the long ones that I see some FNP's wear?

Flowers! Great tip for the support staff!

At USI the first semester will have three classes....patho, research and theory. I know you didn't take the core classes there...but would you take something over this summer??

Thanks Tammy!

[june2009]

I was wondering if someone could please give me an email or phone number that I could contact an advisor for the USI rn-msn program. I've registered on their website several times but I havn't received any info yet. Thanks in advance!

[Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C]

Thanks again! Okay, I am going to choose USI. I love the streaming classes that are live. It sounds like that is the way to go if the timing works. Great to know that all three clinical coordinators at USI are awesome too. Sorry that you had a terrible time at ISU...their loss.

Very NEAT that you designed the FNP patch that my class will wear. :) So the lab jackets are they the short nursing school ones or the long ones that I see some FNP's wear?

Flowers! Great tip for the support staff!

At USI the first semester will have three classes....patho, research and theory. I know you didn't take the core classes there...but would you take something over this summer??

Thanks Tammy!

I would recommend taking Managment of the client in Health Care System (N616) at USI this summer if possible with Prof Gish. Easy A course--all you have to do is a guided biz plan, health related. Also, if possible, try and take ISU N605 (Nursing Theory) with Saucier. Ann will let you transfer in 12 units from another school (DOUBLE CHECK WITH HER FIRST AS THIS MAY HAVE CHANGED) and since you are accepted at both--why not make things as easy on yourself as possible? Saucier is a great professor and is not arbitrary. By eliminating theory this summer, will alow you to focus more on patho and the first sem research--both of which are intense.

The lab jackets can be long or short. Women have the option of wearing the white vests in place of the lab jackets, but most wear the lab jackets.

[Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C]

I was wondering if someone could please give me an email or phone number that I could contact an advisor for the USI rn-msn program. I've registered on their website several times but I havn't received any info yet. Thanks in advance!

Sorry you are having such a hard time. Here's a few contacts:

Berta, [phone] [email protected]

Franchesca [phone] [email protected]

Both are super people and will help figure the problem out, and if they can't fix themselves, will know where to send you to fix the problem.