First Names & "Professionalism"

[porsch65]

Well we had a unit meeting yesterday and were informed that we are no longer allowed to refer to Surgeons, Gasmen or Assistants by their first names. We were also informed that we were not allowed to talk about anything other than our "case". Our program mangager seems to think that we are not being percieved as professional when we refer to to the guys by their first names. Some of us think that this is a retalliation because one of our more prominent surgeons has recently been written up (three times) for harrassment. We think she is in his back pocket. Whatever he needs he gets. Special attention is given to this surgeon, she is in and out of his theatre when he is working. None of our other surgeons get this kind of special attention.

Many of us feel that our department is ripped in half, morale is low. People feel like they cannot go to management with any concerns. When issues come up they are not dealt with, just lip service and no follow-through. Unit meetings are a joke. Everything is her agenda and none of our concerns. Many of us feel that this first name business is just another form of "control" that she needs to exercise over us. CRN's have no input and are never allowed to exercise their own judgement. They are never consulted, and are often "last to know" when things come up.

Just wanting to know what goes on in other O.R.s. Maybe I'm totally out of line here. I think that anything that can foster a sense of "team building" is a positive thing. When you work closely with people and establish a rapport with them I don't feel that referring to someone by the first name is a lack of respect. Thanks for letting me rant.

[stevierae]

I would feel so weird if anybody--nurse, doc, patient, whatever--called me "Nurse so and so." I prefer to be called by my first name. I even feel weird when an attorney calls me "Ms. so-and so" or when my childrens' friends--even when they were young--called me "Mrs." so and so.

But, that's just me--to each his own; whatever one is comfortable with is cool with me. Pretty much wherever I have worked, we call each other by first names, but we do try to maintain some semblance of professionalism in front of patients--because that's what the PATIENTS expect. We could really care less about titles.

I don't think ANYBODY has ever referred to me as "Nurse" so and so. If they did, I would probably fall over laughing, or turn red with embarrassment--it would just seem so formal; so stilted; so--unexpected. Unfriendly, as well.

You know what I REALLY love, though? I LOVE it when middle management or management comes up to a surgeon at the scrub sink and calls him by his first name--and he immediately tells her (it's ALWAYS a her) that they are not friends, they never will be, and to please address him as "Dr." whatever. I LOVE it!!!!! It shows them (management) that they are just what we--the staff--tell them they are--the mutual enemy of both the surgeons and the nursing staff, who must stick together against their incredible idiocy.

I should add that SOME management is cool--I have worked in a couple of operating rooms where they were the nicest folks in the world, and would do anything they could to make our jobs easier--but, for the most part, it's like middle management, particularly, seems to personify the worst of "the Peter Principal--" EVERYONE ridicules them behind their backs. Poor souls--they just don't get it.

[Ferret]

Our program mangager seems to think that we are not being percieved as professional when we refer to to the guys by their first names.

There's a name for senior nurses forcing newer nurses to propogate archaic mannerisms that have little or no relevance to the current setting.

Horizontal violence.

Nurses eat their young.

What do you call the guy who came last in med school? "Doctor".

In hospital, every man and his dog has a doctorate, and the title is meaningless. Knowing a person and remembering their name is a far greater sign of respect than using a title that half the people you run into has.

Professional my backside. I call my mother and my grandparents by their first name, and that does not reduce my respect for them one iota. I ask, respectfully, when I meet a surgeon, how they prefer to be addressed. Most of the time they say something like "anything but late for dinner". I've never had any complaints form doctors about the way I address them, but plenty of complaints from old nurses who are irritated because *they* would never dare address the Lord Doctor as anything else, or that they feel that they earned the right to use a doctor's first name because they worked with them for ten years...

This issue is not about professionalism. it is about old nurses wanting to keep the status quo and support the very segregation that our university courses, our professionalism, is seeking to break down. This issue opposes professionalism.

Ferret

[smk1, LPN]

Yeah I agree Dr or as we call them Mr or Ms at work and first names outside. I prefer it as when we have a disagreement about over runs, attitude ,etc ,etc , it allows us to treat each other as co workers and not disagree as friends. I think its for the best. out of interest to the first poster, what do the mds call the nurses?

this is the first question that popped into my head.... If they had to get so up in arms that a meeting had to be called over the use of a title, then the docs need to be required to call the nurse mr./ms/ or nurse ____ also.

[sharann, BSN, RN]

this is the first question that popped into my head.... If they had to get so up in arms that a meeting had to be called over the use of a title, then the docs need to be required to call the nurse mr./ms/ or nurse ____ also.

I would also like to know the answer to this one. If there is a new rule about first names,I hope that the physicians must adhere to it as well.Otherwise it is a bold statement that screams docs are professionals and nurses are not.

[Someday-C.R.N.A.]

If I become friends with a Doc, I think that we would be on a first name basis.

When we are by the water cooler or on the golf course, he would be "Tom", and I would be "Joe".

As soon as patients are around, or any time we are in a professional situation, he would become "Dr. Jones", and I would become "Nurse (or Mr.) Smith".

If a Doc or Nurse would rather be called by their first name, I don't see why that would create a problem but, it is their decision to make.

Doctors work very hard to earn the title "Doctor". They deserve some degree of respect.

Nurses work very hard to earn the title "Nurse", and they also deserve some respect.

Doctors and Nurses are ALL adults. They are entitled to decide for themselves how they would like to be addressed, and their adult coworkers should respect their wishes.

[grimmy, RN]

where i work, there is no one-size-fits-all approach. no one ever calls me nurse (fill in last name.) they call me by my first name, everytime, and i wouldn't want that to change. when it comes to the physicians, i will call any resident by their first name unless talking with or around a patient/family. frankly, we've all earned our titles, whatever they are, but i don't expect or need to expect to be honored with it everytime calls me by my name. i know who i am, and what i have accomplished. only the most fragile of egos need such an ego-boost. i call my personal doctor by his first name, always have, always will. he sees my crotch for goodness sake! what the hell is a first name after that?? :chuckle

anyway, there are some "elder-statesmen" of surgeons here that i will always call dr. so-and-so. that's fine. i consider it a generational issue, and i'll go with that.

[EinnOgTveir]

What an interesting thread. This name system you guys have is so complex and on so many levels. I come from a country (Iceland) where calling anyone by their last name sound's ridiculous as it's never done.

As for respect, well the president is called Mr and full name and probably the rest of them politicians are too (it's been a while, moved away).

[BernadetteRNBSN]

I think calling MDs by their first names is pretty touchy. I have seen many nurses do it. And unfortunately have seen nurses get in deep trouble (e.g.,corrected, chewed-up) for it. Most MDs are just too bipolar, and i don't want to take any chances. So when i am at work absolutely "NONE" of those MDs are my friends. So I only address them professionally. I may sometimes joke, but i am very aware of the tempo of the conversation due to sudden shifts in personality, i do believe they call that personality disorder or lack of social skils.

Anyway I have worked with many MDs that i have adored and thought were extremely talented, however in a situation (throwing fits/tantrums) their "WORD" has more validity to the higher ups.

First name basis, NO WAY MAN. I'm super cool with calling them "DOCTOR".

[MellyOne]

At the hospital in which I work, I have never witnessed a doctor being called by a first name (although just being called 'Dr.' seems to be appropriate), and I don't think I've ever heard a nurse called 'nurse so-and-so', it's always been a first name or an appropriate nickname. Definitely an interesting thread!

Just out of curiousity-how many of you use your last names at work when introducing yourself to patients/families/etc? Do you have your last names on your name badges? If you do, how do you feel about it?

[FST66E]

I find this issue very doctor dependant. Some doctors insist that we all call them by their first names, others would be offended if we did.

Having known some doctors for many years, I am comfortable speaking my mind and they do the same. Nobody gets offended because we know that we both respect each other as professionals.

[grimmy, RN]

at the hospital in which i work, i have never witnessed a doctor being called by a first name (although just being called 'dr.' seems to be appropriate), and i don't think i've ever heard a nurse called 'nurse so-and-so', it's always been a first name or an appropriate nickname. definitely an interesting thread!

just out of curiousity-how many of you use your last names at work when introducing yourself to patients/families/etc? do you have your last names on your name badges? if you do, how do you feel about it?

last names are on our badges, and when i conduct a pt interview i say, "hello, i'm *****, and i'm the operating room nurse." i give my first name only. most of my pts have seen so many people in their short time in the hospital, they're lucky they remember their own name! there have been a few that will ask for me once they get into pacu, and i'm more than happy to visit them and reassure them. some do ask for my last name, but its a rare event. because i have an unusual last name, asking about my last name is about curiousity than anything else.

[yoga crna]

This is a great thread and something that needs to be discussed. I call the surgeons "Doctor" unless they tell me otherwise. Even if they tell me to call them by their first name, I don't do it in front of patients or families.

I do think it is a matter of respect, so I request what I give. They can call me by my first name or Ms. in front of patients.

I must say that because of the intimacy in the operating room among all personnel, including surgeons, we tend to get complacent and casual. I think professionalism is important all the way around and nurses need to expect to be treated as such.

As an anesthetist, I do take great exception to be called "anesthesia" or "gas passer". I have a name and expect it to be used and as far as "gasser" or other variations, it is not cute and is clearly disrepectful.

As a final note, I just got a lovely gift from a patient today with a letter telling me how much she appreciated the pre-op phone call, insisting that the OR be warm until she was anesthetized and not having her hands restrained. She said that she has had multiple procedures at other facilities and has never been to place where she was treated with so much respect. It really made my otherwise miserable day.

Yoga CRNA

PS Misery was because of a really difficult intubation, a surgeon who decided he could save time by admitting his own patient, and an OR tech who called in sick.