Fired from job

IMustBeCrazy · Sep 30, 2006

I agree, attend the peer review.

However, since you are no longer employed, you have no duty to report to them whether or not you intend to be present with counsel. It is a courtesy only, and do you really feel like playing nice? Frankly, I would send back a short but sweet message to them "Yes, I will be there and I will participate in the peer review." I would send this via letter or fax, do not talk to them on the phone, this limits the follow up questions that you know they will ask. I would hire an attorney and take them with you to the review and not let the hospice agency know beforehand. It is none of their business - you are protecting your reputation/livelihood with whatever means you legally have available, as do they. Who knows...they may elect not to have counsel present and then you have a leg up. At this point, it's all about strategy. Outplay them at their own game.

medsurgnurse, RN · Sep 30, 2006

Did you document every word of what you told us here? We hate to say something bad about soemone but if you put it in a factual way, its appropriate. I'm talking about the wife's behavior. ex. giving po medications to patient, using small sips of water with staw. Pt's wife stated "do not touch his nose." The patient nose was not touched during this nursing procedure. Patient took medications without difficulty.

I am very fortunate to FINALLY have a supervisor who listens to the nurse side of the story before jumping to conclusions.

goingnuts · Sep 30, 2006

Yes I wrote everything down. I was only in the home approx. thirty minutes. The woman was screaming so much I had to get out of there as soon as possible, the pt. had only been with hospice less than a week so there is nothing to go back to. This hospice does the bare minimum. I was there for a specific problem. Wife said husband complained of pain. He never said a word the whole time I was there. And he didn't look like he was in pain. The wife was mad at hospice way before I got there. She just took it out on me. I didn't think she would go to this extreme. The letter they sent me stated if I didn't tell them a week ahead I was bringing a lawyer then he wouldn't be allowed in. So I guess I better inform them. This is all just a game. To bad it is at my expense. I feel a little better tho since I believe my having a lawyer will nip this in the bud. All they have is the word of that lying wife. So I am trying hard to concentrate on my job I have now. It will always be nursing homes from now on for me. I hate them but at least nothing like this has ever happened.

IMustBeCrazy · Sep 30, 2006

yes i wrote everything down. i was only in the home approx. thirty minutes. the woman was screaming so much i had to get out of there as soon as possible, the pt. had only been with hospice less than a week so there is nothing to go back to. this hospice does the bare minimum. i was there for a specific problem. wife said husband complained of pain. he never said a word the whole time i was there. and he didn't look like he was in pain. the wife was mad at hospice way before i got there. she just took it out on me. i didn't think she would go to this extreme. the letter they sent me stated if i didn't tell them a week ahead i was bringing a lawyer then he wouldn't be allowed in. so i guess i better inform them. this is all just a game. to bad it is at my expense. i feel a little better tho since i believe my having a lawyer will nip this in the bud. all they have is the word of that lying wife. so i am trying hard to concentrate on my job i have now. it will always be nursing homes from now on for me. i hate them but at least nothing like this has ever happened.

too bad for them. you don't work there anymore (remember, they fired you - you didn't quit), and don't need to play by their rules. go, bring your attorney and attend the peer review. you are there to answer questions and protect your livelihood. what difference is it to them if you bring an attorney or not? your answers are not going to change with an attorney. play hardball - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. if you are ready to talk to the peer panel and they don't allow you in because you refuse to be grilled without counsel present, then they get to answer to bon as to why they disallowed your 'testimony'.

and the best part is, your attorney will be witness to this event. should this happen, i think they are putting themselves in a pretty weak position should they decide to refer you to the bon, but that is my opinion. whatever you do, seek counsel.

LydiaNN · Sep 30, 2006

Too bad for them. You don't work there anymore (remember, they fired YOU - you didn't quit), and don't need to play by their rules. Go, bring your attorney and attend the peer review. You are there to answer questions and protect your livelihood. What difference is it to them if you bring an attorney or not? Your answers are not going to change with an attorney. Play hardball - You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If you are ready to talk to the peer panel and they don't allow you in because you refuse to be grilled without counsel present, then THEY get to answer to BON as to why they disallowed your 'testimony'.
And the best part is, your attorney will be witness to this event. Should this happen, I think they are putting themselves in a pretty weak position should they decide to refer you to the BON, but that is my opinion. Whatever you do, seek counsel.

It may be a written provision of peer review that she has to let them know a week ahead of time, though. Even though she no longer works for them, if she wants to avail herself of peer review, she still needs to follow the procedure to the letter.

IMustBeCrazy · Sep 30, 2006

If that is the case (which we are guessing), she has no professional obligation to participate in such a witch hunt. At all.

Despite what others have said, it is not an admission of guilt - she is not ignoring a subpeona for a court of law, nor is she ignoring a request from the BON for factfinding. Peer review is courtesy only, and, of course, only for the ex-employer's benefit (remember, she's not employed there any longer.) They certainly are not doing this for her benefit.

CseMgr1, ASN, RN · Sep 30, 2006

The sort of abuse by patients and their families that you noted is common in nursing. Also, it is common for nursing agencies to punish nurses for just doing their job, as you did, for the purpose of attracting patients and avoiding the threat of a law suit.
The nurse, therefore, is abused unjustly by the patient, the patients family, and their own nursing agency.
This is a reason why there is a developing nursing shortage.
Please remember that bad things happen to good people like yourself.
Best of luck!

Well said. This "guilty until proven innocent" mentality by those individuals you have stated above is par for the course, isn't it? :madface:

morte, LPN, LVN · Sep 30, 2006

i would consult with the attorney BEFORE telling them that you would be accompanied by one......let the attorney tell you if it is nec to tell them or not.....in fact, once you have an attorney on board, let s/he do as much of the talking/interacting, as possible....good luck

maryshome8 · Sep 30, 2006

I must not know how to get started on this thing. I want to get some advice about a problem I am having as an LVN. I worked for hospice for only 6 weeks. One nite they sent me to a lady whose husband was having pain. This was at 2300. The minute I got there the wife screamed at me for calling her mam. I tried very hard to remember not to do that. And she constandly screamed at her husband to stay in bed because she had to get some sleep. She couldn't talk without screaming. She told me hospice had done nothing for her and she didnt' know what medicienes he had. She had only been with the program a week. I showed her where he could have 7.5/500 vicodin, 1mg. ativan, 0.5 xanax, and 10mg. Ambien. I explained he could have all of them at once. Maybe that would make him more comfortable and he would stay in bed. She kept screaming at her husband to stay in bed. He was sitting almost completely vertical and his feet were nearly to the floor. I suggested lowering his head and raising his feet making it harder for him to crawl out of bed. She started screaming at me that she would never to that so I put him right back the way he was which was only an inch difference anyway. I used a straw with my finger over one end to hold water in it while trying to get the pt. to take his medicine. The wife screamed at me not to touch his nose. I didn't think I touched his nose. Anyway after all of that she was real nice and told me to be careful going home. When I went to work the next day they fired me saying the wife called that morning saying I tortured her husband and held his nose and when he told me to stop I refused. The man never said a word the entire time I was there. I was devestated. I cried so hard I couln't find my car in the parking lot. Now they are sending me letters saying there will be a peer review and maybe report me to the board. The man died the following Weds. Not a mark on him anywhere. By the way they are not saying I had anything to do with his death. they brought up the fact that I gave him all of those medicines at once and he had no trouble taking them. That was true. And he was allowed to have the meds all at once. They were ordered that way. He hadn't had any in over four hours. And the wife stated he was in pain. He never said anything. Please someone tell me do I have a lot to worry about. If this goes to the board I will get an attorney. I am not going to the peer review though. They only want to gawk at me and stare. If they were having it somewhere else I would go but they know what they are doing by forcing me to have to face everyone and be humilated for something I didn't even do.:uhoh21:

Hospice is hard and GOD BLESS you for working in it.

I'm not a nurse, but I can tell you that you were probably working in a very poor center that fired you because of what one person said.

When people are faced with death, and I'm sure you learned this, they go through anger, denial, all of those emotions...the wife is clearly in the anger stage and is willing to take it out on anyone that will stick around long enough.

She clearly needs counseling to assist her through this time because she is being verbally abusive to her dying husband at the same time, she needs support, a break, something, and the woman may not have a support system at all.

What she did (making up lies, and gross exaggerations) is not uncommon, and I am suprised your center did not at least consider this.

Find an attorney, but I seriously doubt she will report you to the board. If you did exactly as the medical was ordered, then that is all you can do. What SHE says doesn't matter..she is grieving. She is looking to blame someone.

You may not know this, but hospice in many areas doesn't have a good reputation...they are seen as how to get medications and other things without having to make a hospital visit. This is because it is very, very difficult for them to keep quality, experienced staff, so they have to rely on alot of new grads, or others that can't work other types of nursing jobs for whatever reason.

Keep your chin up and know this is an ISOLATED situation..look for another job.

maryshome8 · Sep 30, 2006

In one sense, it will be ''her word against your's'' in that there isn't any physical evidence to back up her charges against you.
Having said that, though, I really encourage you to at least consult with an attorney. Here's why: When it comes time to one person's word against another, people still have to decide who they believe, or whether they just don't have the information they need to make that decision. If you don't go to the peer review, that is going to factor into the ultimate disposition of this case. I can understand why the prospect of facing those people upsets you, but think about what your failure to appear may say to them. You will be conspicous in your absence. I don't think you should count on this woman not showing up. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, and maybe she is ''in it for the money''. I don't imagine she has much of a case, but I think we've all seen and heard of cases that have been settled for their nuisance value, and you don't want to get sucked into one of those situations.
An attorney will help you prepare for peer review. S/he can help you prepare your written and oral statements so that they are organized in the most effective way possible. S/he will step in if the questions cross the line and become badgering, or if you are asked leading or intimidating questions. Look at it this way. If you were being charged with a crime, even a minor one that carried little jail time, you'd want an attorney present. What will be discussed at the peer review and, should it come to that, the BON, will have a much longer lasting impact on your life. You really need some guidance here, IMHO.
As far as why your facility is trying to pin you down as to whether or not you're bringing an attorney to peer review, I imagine that they want to know whether they should bring one... I can't emphasize strongly enough what a mistake I believe it would be to proceed without one. While each of us who has posted a response are sincere in the input we offer you, when it comes right down to it, it isn't our career on the line. You need to safeguard your rights, and none of us can do that for you.

If I was being accused and your former place of employment wanted to know if you were bringing an attorney, I would refuse to answer any of those questions...or ANYTHING ELSE that they asked.

They fired you, they aren't supporting you, they are against you...so don't trust the most innocent thing they are doing or asking because they will twist it around.

You also don't know what that woman did to her husband...if she was acting all crazy, how do you know what killed him? Is she trying to cover up a mercy killing? Sounds crazy...but you have to consider everything.

maryshome8 · Sep 30, 2006

I agree, attend the peer review.
However, since you are no longer employed, you have no duty to report to them whether or not you intend to be present with counsel. It is a courtesy only, and do you really feel like playing nice? Frankly, I would send back a short but sweet message to them "Yes, I will be there and I will participate in the peer review." I would send this via letter or fax, do not talk to them on the phone, this limits the follow up questions that you know they will ask. I would hire an attorney and take them with you to the review and not let the hospice agency know beforehand. It is none of their business - you are protecting your reputation/livelihood with whatever means you legally have available, as do they. Who knows...they may elect not to have counsel present and then you have a leg up. At this point, it's all about strategy. Outplay them at their own game.

I second this! Great advice!

firstaiddave907 · Sep 30, 2006

wwow I am sorry that happend to you i hope everything works out for you.