Falsely Accused of a HIPAA Violation

Agnus · Sep 15, 2004

I am a 45 year old nursing student beginning my second year of my ADN. I was recently told by an RN at the hospital where I have my clinicals of a curious use of HIPAA. She stated that hospital administration and even coworkers use false HIPPA violation accusations to fire health care workers, even nurses, that they do not like. She explained that with anonymous HIPAA accusations they do not have to present any evidence or identify the accuser and they avoid any potential legal ramifications from unwarranted termination. They don’t even have to tell the accused of what he/she has done. It’s quick, easy, no fuss no muss.

Being a citizen of the U.S., if the above is true, I find this deplorable and a little bit scary. Please tell me that the nurse was exaggerating. What ever happened to the constitutional right to confront your accusers?! How about at least knowing what your accused of?!

Some questions:

With HIPAA can you be accused anonymously?
Can you be brought before a hospital HIPAA Committee without knowing or ever being told what the accusation is?
Does the HIPAA Committee have the power to terminate your employment or recommend your termination even if you contest the accusation?
Does the Hospital HIPAA Committee have the power to terminate your employment, or recommend termination, based on the anonymous accusation only, even though there is no other evidence of a HIPAA violation?
Where can I find a description of the rights of the accused in the HIPAA regulations?
Where can I find a definition of the powers of the hospital HIPAA Committee in the HIPAA regulations?
Is there a way to appeal the decision of the HIPAA Committee? What authority is there above the hospital HIPAA Committee?

Your answers and comments will be greatly appreciated.

You are actually in two different legal areas I believe. Hippa is one area and employment law is another.

Unless you are under contract (individual or union) you are considered an at will employee. By law the employer can fire you for any reason or no reason.

Employee hand books can be your friend because my legal counsel tells me that the employee handbook can be construed as a contract even when it contains a disclaimer to the contrary.

Also the written policies of a facility are very important.

IF there is anything mentioned in either of these about progressive disapline then they must follow it. They must treat all employees equally. That is they can not pick and choose who they will fire at will and who they will use progressive disapline with. Nor can they use progressive disapline in some cases and not others.

If they fire at will and there is no policy to the contrary they do not have to give a reason because they legally can do do without any reason at all.

ayndim · Sep 15, 2004

You are actually in two different legal areas I believe. Hippa is one area and employment law is another.
Unless you are under contract (individual or union) you are considered an at will employee. By law the employer can fire you for any reason or no reason.
Employee hand books can be your friend because my legal counsel tells me that the employee handbook can be construed as a contract even when it contains a disclaimer to the contrary.
Also the written policies of a facility are very important.
IF there is anything mentioned in either of these about progressive disapline then they must follow it. They must treat all employees equally. That is they can not pick and choose who they will fire at will and who they will use progressive disapline with. Nor can they use progressive disapline in some cases and not others.
If they fire at will and there is no policy to the contrary they do not have to give a reason because they legally can do do without any reason at all.

Actually that is not entirely true, even in the land of AZ with its wonderful employee protections -- not :uhoh3: . A employer cannot fire you for any reason that is legally protected from wrongful termination, i.e., you are a woman, for you race, etc. And in most states cannot fire you if it is a public policy violation (i.e., whistleblower protection). And if they don't give you a reason and you suspect this is why you can file a complaint.

http://www.lrims.com/FAQatwill.htm

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf

The bls website breaks down your rights by state.

Mantibob · Sep 15, 2004

You are actually in two different legal areas I believe. Hippa is one area and employment law is another.
Unless you are under contract (individual or union) you are considered an at will employee. By law the employer can fire you for any reason or no reason.
Employee hand books can be your friend because my legal counsel tells me that the employee handbook can be construed as a contract even when it contains a disclaimer to the contrary.
Also the written policies of a facility are very important.
IF there is anything mentioned in either of these about progressive disapline then they must follow it. They must treat all employees equally. That is they can not pick and choose who they will fire at will and who they will use progressive disapline with. Nor can they use progressive disapline in some cases and not others.
If they fire at will and there is no policy to the contrary they do not have to give a reason because they legally can do do without any reason at all.

Acctually I am refering to employers using HIPAA rules to bypass employment laws and protections. Please reread my original post and if you can try to answer my questions. I am very concerned about this. Does this occur? Can it? Thanks

Mantibob · Sep 15, 2004

Actually that is not entirely true, even in the land of AZ with its wonderful employee protections -- not . A employer cannot fire you for any reason that is legally protected from wrongful termination, i.e., you are a woman, for you race, etc. And in most states cannot fire you if it is a public policy violation (i.e., whistleblower protection). And if they don't give you a reason and you suspect this is why you can file a complaint.
http://www.lrims.com/FAQatwill.htm
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf
The bls website breaks down your rights by state.

Thanks for your response but please try to focus on the subject at hand, and that is - using HIPAA rules to bypass employment laws and protections. I am very concerned about this!!! If you can read my original post and answer my questions I would really appreciate it!!!

cannoli · Sep 15, 2004

Have you been accused of a violation?

Is this for a school assignment?

Is there a HIPAA website that could answer your questions?

Mantibob · Sep 15, 2004

I am curious by your response. What do your first two questions have to do with my post? But, I will answer them.

No, I have not been accused of a violation. If you really read my original post you would know that.

No, this is not a school assignment. It is against the rules of this site to use it to complete assignments.

To answer your last question. I have searched all over the net and have yet to find any reference to rights of individuals accused of HIPAA violations. This was the purpose of my original post. Do you know of a site or a book or a manual or anything for that matter that addresses this???

If you have any actual relevent input or answeres to my questions in my original post I would appreciate it.

Have you been accused of a violation?
Is this for a school assignment?
Is there a HIPAA website that could answer your questions?

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Sep 15, 2004

The Constitution only really protects you from the government, and then not always.

I had a competitor suggest that I was practicing outside my scope (not nursing) and a "question" was filed with my licensing board. They sent me a letter. They did not identify the "questioner," they did not even give any specifics. They asked under what guidelines I had used a particular diagnostic test, the results of which I had included in a report to the court in a custody battle.

This process, if you can call it that, just the above paragraph, took about a year. They started off with "we have received an inquiry and we'll get back with you in six months." I kid you not!

Finally, nearly a full year later, I had a conversation with a legal intern who, again without any details, leaving me to guess what she was talking about, asked me about the particular test. Since I rarely used formal diagnostic tools, it was easy to figure out what she was talking about. I assured her I had obtained supervision by a PhD for that particular case, that I had had two courses on administering and interpreting that particular tool, and that I had covered all that in my qualifying testimony in court, and that the judge and both attorneys had accepted it. I gave her names--didn't have dates.

Mind you this was on my nickel!

We get done and she says, OK, will you write me a letter stating what you have just said? Thirty minutes of discussion, and now she wants me to write it down? You've got to be kidding, I said.

And that was when I asked the pivotal question--"have you taken Constitutional Law yet? Do you understand rules of evidence and the protection of persons' civil rights, and the concept of innocence until proof of guilt?"

She responded that this was not even a proceeding, much less a criminal one, and I could just forget all that business about Constitutional protection. The state had issued my license and the state could take it away. I asked if that was a threat. You can pretty well guess that the talk went down hill from there.

Nothing ever came of it. I move to another state (was going to anyway), and there was no problem getting my license here.

But basically, just be sure you NEVER violate anybody's HPPPA protections, and you'll be able to defend yourself. As an at will employee, the best you can expect is unemployment if you are terminated.

Good luck!

fergus51 · Sep 15, 2004

I think Angus did answer you. An employer can fire you for any reason they like, so they don't need to "use" HIPAA to do it. I have never heard of it happening.

cannoli · Sep 15, 2004

I am curious by your response. What do your first two questions have to do with my post? But, I will answer them.
No, I have not been accused of a violation. If you really read my original post you would know that.
No, this is not a school assignment. It is against the rules of this site to use it to complete assignments.
To answer your last question. I have searched all over the net and have yet to find any reference to rights of individuals accused of HIPAA violations. This was the purpose of my original post. Do you know of a site or a book or a manual or anything for that matter that addresses this???
If you have any actual relevent input or answeres to my questions in my original post I would appreciate it.

Well I really don't understand why you would expect that people on this board would know the answers to your questions.

Why don't you contact the HIPAA officer at the hospital where you do your clinicals and discuss it with him/her.

ayndim · Sep 15, 2004

Thanks for your response but please try to focus on the subject at hand, and that is - using HIPAA rules to bypass employment laws and protections. I am very concerned about this!!! If you can read my original post and answer my questions I would really appreciate it!!!

First off I was responding to Angus and secondly your response comes off as really rude. Please try to read the websites and responses posted and make some conclusions. We both gave you the info you need to draw a conclusion. Read the websites that I posted. But I will spell it out for you. If you are an at-will employee, then yes they can fire you for whatever reason (including HIPPA violations) but they cannot violate federal and state laws. So if they say that you violated HIPPA but you suspect they really fired you because you are disabled, over forty, a male/female, a whistleblower in some states or other protected class then it is illegal and you have the right to file a suit with the appropriate agency.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Sep 15, 2004

I was going to suggest we stay away from personalities and whether or not anybody seems rude, and focus on this OP's topic.

Sounds like this is relatively uncharted territory.

Maybe the OP can contact their local authorities and post what they learned?

I'm interested....