Entry level nursing doctorate

Nemhain · Feb 18, 2006

I am looking for entry level doctorate nursing programs for people who have a BS degree in a non nursing field. Where can I find this info?
Thanks.

I had no idea such a thing existed.

suzanne4, RN · Feb 19, 2006

How about getting the MSN first with some experience. It is quite hard to get a doctorate in something when you have no experience in the area.

Sorry, if it sounds rude, but you will definitely have a horrible time, if not impossible in getting a job afterwards. Even direct entry NPs do, so this would not be any different. And I pray that they never, ever exist.

lovingpecola · Feb 19, 2006

Hey Suzanne4! Do you have any links to statistics about NP's unemployment rates? I wasn't aware of this issue, and it would be great to know, especially since DEprograms are so expensive!

LovingPecola

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 19, 2006

There is a degree called an ND degree .... or "Nursing Doctorate" degree. It is for people with a BS or BA in another field. I'm not sure how many schools offer them now ... but it used to be that the following 3 schools had them. I would check with those schools.

University of Colorado Health Science Center

Case Western Reserve University

Rush Presbeterian ( in Chicago)

This website also has some links to various schools.

llg

suzanne4, RN · Feb 19, 2006

Hey Suzanne4! Do you have any links to statistics about NP's unemployment rates? I wasn't aware of this issue, and it would be great to know, especially since DEprograms are so expensive!
LovingPecola

I do not have any physical statistics in front of me, but just think about it for a moment. It would be like going to see a Doctor that has never done an internship. The NP actual title is "Advanced Nurse RN"----- how can you be an APRN without having worked as an RN before. Your skills build on this.

All I know, and after too many years oaf work experience to count, most that I see that were direct entry are back at the bedside doing bedside nursing. It also depends on where you are located, some areas there are not any jobs that pay more or much more than a bedside RN. Make sure that you do your homework on your area. And know the job market before you get started.

And from the other side of the coin, you have two job openings for NPs. You have five that apply. Four each have over five years of work as an RN before they went to NP school, and one has none, who are you going to select? Nursing skills develop over time, they are not learned overnight.

Assessment skills get better with time, your intuition and sixth sense develops better over time, and it takes time.

lovingpecola · Feb 19, 2006

Oh ok, I've heard what you're saying from others too, but no one ever has any statistics saying the NP's are out of work...When I go to the NHSC website, there are dozens and dozens of jobs listed there and they seem to always be listed as if no one ever wants to work in these areas (ie: inner city clinics in Detroit, Chicago, DC, etc). I will be a bedside nurse starting in the second year of my program so that I can get some experience, and it is also my understanding that midwives do integration for the last semester of some programs to get experience. I agree that it is a misnomer to have a title of *Advanced* when you haven't had significant RN experience.

It would be so helpful to have a statistical database of some sort that keeps track of how/what DE graduates are doing so people can make informed decisions because on the one hand yo have folks saying "you're not going to find a job or you're going to be a bedside nurse" and on the other you have folks saying "we have 100% job placement within 6 months" so without the numbers it's hard to know what to believe!

The only confidence I have lie in the fact that I know I want to work with populations that very few people have wanted to work with in the past. And honestly, I don't see people running to work in my neighborhood or ones like it around the country, if they were, there would be no need for programs such as NHSC whose sole purpose is to recruit/entice people to work in these neighborhoods that no one else thinks about...

I think it will help if DE graduates don't think they somehow know everything coming out of the gates (just the same as Assoc/BSN RN's shouldn't) Be humble, be honest, and work hard...every job requires OJT!

In the mean timhink I'll make a new post asking recent DE graduates to post what they're doing!

beckinben, CNM · Feb 19, 2006

There is a degree called an ND degree .... or "Nursing Doctorate" degree. It is for people with a BS or BA in another field. I'm not sure how many schools offer them now ... but it used to be that the following 3 schools had them. I would check with those schools.
University of Colorado Health Science Center
Case Western Reserve University
Rush Presbeterian ( in Chicago)
This website also has some links to various schools.
llg

UCHSC no longer offers the ND. They have transitioned into a DNP program, which is more like the direct-entry programs offered by Yale, Columbia, etc. in that you enter with a non-nursing undergraduate degree, do an accelerated nursing program that allows you to sit for the NCLEX, and leave with specialty training in an area like midwifery, FNP, ANP, etc. The difference is the end degree is a doctorate in nursing practice (DNP) rather than a MSN.

Becki

guest27716 · Feb 20, 2006

I actually want to do research only. I don't want to work with the public. I thought of the MSN but I really don't know much about the difference of degrees and so forth. If I got a MSN, I am sure that I would have to work with the public. Don't get me wrong, I like people but I enjoy research. What type of MSN should I look into?

Thanks.

guest27716 · Feb 20, 2006

I also like Case Management too. What does CM look like for jobs/opportunities?

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 20, 2006

If you really have no interest at all in actually doing what nurses do for even a small portion of your career, perhaps you would find a "better fit" in another health-related career. What type of research are you interested in doing?

For example ... if you are interested in the business side of health care or the public health policy side, get your academic training in health services administration. If you are interested in doing physiological research, get your education in physiology. If you are interested in research related to human behavior, then study psychology, sociology, or anthropology -- focusing on health care behaviors. Biomedical statistics is also a separate field that might be of interest to you if you are into that sort of thing ... as is epidemiology. etc. etc. etc.

There are lots of academic fields that contribute to the pool of knowledge that health care professionals use. If you don't want to spend any time actually providing nursing care to people, you are probably going to be miserable if and when you find yourself in nursing school. You might be happier choosing another path to being a researcher.

Also, the discipline of nursing needs researchers who truly understand nursing -- not researchers who have only a slight familiarity with actual nursing practice. Good research results from expertise -- and you only get true expertise by actually practicing in the field for a little while.

Why set yourself up like that? Choose a field of study that actually excites you and that you will be happy in for many years -- not one that you find distasteful.

Good luck,

llg

guest27716 · Feb 21, 2006

Thanks LLG for the advice. You are 100 percent right. I am interested in researching about the dangers of drugs. I was a victim of medical malpractice and want to learn about drugs and then educate health professionals about the dangers of drugs, appropiate doseages to give and really look at if a person needs the drug or not. That is my interest in a nutshell.

Again, thanks for the advice. I have been really thinking of which way I can go but I get confused of where to start.