Emergency Nurse Practitioner programs?

Trauma Columnist · Jul 4, 2009

Loyola in Chicago has what they call an ENP program - however, you sit the ACNP exam. Then....believe it or not they see kids! At a recent (Mar 09) ENA oonference in Chicago I talked with the dean of the nursing program and she told me that since this program has peds ER clinicals, their grads can see peds. Unsure how the IL BON views this.

mwboswell · Jul 4, 2009

Loyola in Chicago has what they call an ENP program - however, you sit the ACNP exam. Then....believe it or not they see kids! At a recent (Mar 09) ENA oonference in Chicago I talked with the dean of the nursing program and she told me that since this program has peds ER clinicals, their grads can see peds. Unsure how the IL BON views this.

Hmmm, that very interesting.

I would say if the "intent" in seeing PEDS ER pt's is for "PEDS ER" exposure, then it does not fulfill the clinical for FNP PEDS.

I would think that ANCC "assumes" that if PEDS is listed in the program curricula towards an FNP focus prorgram, then the PEDS component is also looking at health promotion, primary care, and prevention. Also things like normal growth and development; while "nice" to know and work with in the ED - definitely aren't the focus of care.

If I were a Dean and/or a program director for this program, I would be very cautious how the program objectives and competencies were worded.

The whole point I think is that advance practice programs need to back off from the ENP for just a bit and lets see what the certifying entities decide to do. I sure would hate for a student or an employer, spend their money on a program which, when the certification is developed, doesn't meet the criteria, AND, limits the graduate in their practice oppotunities.

Bidwillty · Jul 4, 2009

I am currently an ER nurse and have 10 months left till graduation as an FNP, many of the docs I have worked with have offered me a job, even though I would be the first NP, (they currently only have PA's), I know the offer was made based on my ER and critical care background. You have to market yourself and also FNP lets you see all ages as well as ob/gyn, you canot do that with ACNP for the most part. Hope that helps.

Trauma Columnist · Jul 5, 2009

My nursing exp is mostly ER also (10 years in level one trauma center). However, they have a huge ER residency program so do not hire any mid-levels. I am currently an adult health CNS who is returning to school in August for the peds/family CNS in order to be more marketable.

ANPFNPGNP · Jul 7, 2009

hello everyone,
I need your help I am completing my DNP. I am a ER Np - I have a FNP, WHNP and CNM.
I am doing a needs assessment. I want NP's and PA input.
1. How many NP ER programs are out there? I see Jacksonville, Emory, Vanderbilt and Alabama? are there more?
2. NP's working in ER setting what would you have liked to have seen in your program that would have helped you to work in the ER
ie.... ortho, cardiac, opthamology rotations
I hear that you fear being isolated to ER so maybe an FNP with a Concentration in ER
any other thoughts that need to be assessed let me know
Karen

I definitely needed more experience in ophthamology and ortho. I trained with internists and family practice doctors and they did not suture or perform many procedures. They were also very weak in reading x-rays. In Texas, only Acute Care NP's can work in the ER setting. However, FNP's can work in the fast track...we take care of those people who shouldn't be in the ER. So, anything cardiac related goes directly to the ER.

I completed close to 1500 clinical hours, since I certified as a GNP, ANP and FNP. I'm absolutely astounded that FNP programs don't require a MINIMUM of 1,500 hours! The most clinical hours I've seen is 800 and that is NOT even close to enough. FNP's should be mandated to do pedes, ortho, surgical and OB rotations - most family practice docs in larger cities do not treat kids or pregnant women. I know several FNP's who never assessed a pregnant woman or small child during their rotations. The ANCC and AANP need to double the clinical hours for each specialty. In fact, it would be awesome if the FNP was the starting point and then people could complete further education and clinicals hours in the various specialties - just like doctors do!

Also, UT Health Science Center in Houston had an ER/FNP program, but some of their students weren't able to get licensed in some states, even though they were board certified as FNP's. I believe that's the reason they closed it down - what a shame. Aren't there ER programs in California?

intown · Jul 17, 2009

This has been great reading! I am an FNP with a psych (have a psych CNS), women's health, primary care and college health (similar to urgent care) and would like to work in an ER. Since I have not worked much acute care, employers have been reluctant to hire me.

I thought about trying to look in to programs, but after reading all these postings, that does not sound like a wise use of time and resources. I am wondering if my background makes me suitable for fast track.

Any suggestions how to build skills that would help an FNP get her foot in the door of an ER?

Thanks --

Jan_80 · Jul 29, 2009

I'm a new staff nurse in the ED and I have a high interest in becoming an NP within 1 or 2 yrs from now. So, does anyone know any Emergency NP or Critical Care NP programs in NYC? Thanks!:)

s.foster,rn · Apr 1, 2010

I too am looking into the ENP program (at Vanderbilt). I read the others' posts, and I have not researched the sources from which they provided, but according to the Vandy program for ENP, it sounds the best. It is a combination, or dual degree, of FNP and ACNP. It is ideal for ER, ICU, or clinics. It is broad because of the FNP, but focused with the ACNP to allow job opportunities (not to mention the challenge and excitement) in almost any acute/critical care settings. The trauma nurse certification I reasearch at other facilites seemed to be what others were saying about the ENP, in that it is the narrow focus of only that area (which is similar to the ACNP if sought independently) and would limit your scope and practice. I don't think Vandy even offers that one.

Regardless, I hope this helps and my best advice to select the school(s) you would most likely attend and research their specifics on what each program is because apparently they vary between schools. Again, if you are looking at Vandy, I am going to try to seek the ENP route because it definately sounds like what I want, and probably you as well. Good luck! :)

Thanks,

s.foster,RN

APNgonnabe · Apr 1, 2010

If places are doing a dual degree why would a PNP not work instead of a FNP? ACNP are for adults w/ both chronic and acute so I would think that would work for adult edu needs.

Trauma Columnist · Apr 2, 2010

In my area, the ACNP and ACPNP or PNP are the way to go in for ER jobs.

ERandAestheticFNP · Apr 4, 2010

Hey you, I am an ER RN, waitting to pass my AANP exam AGAIN, just failed it yesterday and I will be an ER FNP! I was hired through CEP. California Emergency Physicans :)

DuluthMike · Apr 13, 2010

I realize this is an older thread but I would just like to throw my advice in as I have been traversing deciding between an ACNP/FNP and PA for working in the ED. The scope of practice, overall, is going to be the same between the two so long as you can be trained in the procedures.

The problem therin lies in recieving training in procedures as a ACNP/FNP. Because of this you are extremely limited. Does this mean you can't run codes as a NP? No, it just means that acquiring the training to do this is extremely hard. Whereas PA's have a linty of options including PA residency's where they have the same scope of practice and responsibilities as PGY1 EM Residents. PA residents do the same cycle through various services, ie general surgery, telemetry, ect. This gives the PA a huge leg up in their scope of practice. PA's can also do ATLS certification, whereas I believe NP's can only do the nursing equivalent.

If your passion is emergency and you want a large scope of practice you can surely do it as a ACNP/FNP. However you will have a very hard uphill battle as opposed to the PA who has a similar interest in an expanded scope of practice. Both will have to work extra to gain that scope of practice, the ACNP/FNP must jump through so many more hoops and requires so much help that is outside of their power to control. They must find an employer that wants to invenst heavily in their training as well as taking on a high degree of liability. Whereas the PA who is motivated has a litny of options for easily expanding scope of practice.