Dr. gives deadline to smoking pts

fergus51 · Mar 3, 2002

JMP,

If we want to argue that smoking isn't a right, shouldn't it be made illegal? As long as people are not breaking the law I don't see how we can compare them to drunk drivers. Would you support it being made illegal to smoke? I don't know if any groups are working on this. Here in BC it was made illegal in public places like restaurants and pubs because of the danger of secondhand smoke on workers, but the provincial gov't has nixed that.

I never meant to imply that the cig tax alone will pay for their health care, but they also pay regular taxes to pay for that. Just like my taxes will pay for me when I have an MI. A study done a year or so ago in the Czech Republic actually found that smoking saved the health care system money by killing people prematurely. It's sick, and was VERY criticized in the country.

JMP · Mar 3, 2002

Mario

Umm...... my opinions may be strong. However, I am entitled to them. As far as human nature goes, give me a break kiddo. I do not see these boards as my plank. IF it is too hot for you, well maybe you should get out of the kitchen and sit in the living room for awhile? After you are cooled off...... come back and then we can talk.

JMP · Mar 3, 2002

Oh yah, as far as someone doing something because I told them not to- I raised two kids- mostly on my own and so I know about teenage behaviour. If you see smoking in that light Mario, you must be lighting one up right now?

mario_ragucci · Mar 3, 2002

JMP - please don't start now asserting I am mad. If I'm mad, I will tell you I am mad. If you want to think I am mad, and then post your thought I am mad, thats okay. You can.

That, however, is a diversion. You can respond to what I wrote, but you instead assert your perceptions of my mood. It's okay, son.

:-)

JMP · Mar 3, 2002

Mario

I guess you did not read my posting with the care I thought you would. I did respond. You think people will be compelled to do the opposite to which I subscribe. You think perhaps I think you just walked out a "cotton field". If you carry that "logic" one step further you would then have me believe that people smoke....well because I said it was bad, unhealthy etc. If you really believe that.........your head is still stuck in teenage-land. A land where everything an adult says ....you are driven to do opposite. You feel I have strong opinions that are best left to myself? Being strong on smoking may not win me friends but I still believe that I am right.

JMP · Mar 3, 2002

Mario

I guess you did not read my posting with the care I thought you would. I did respond. You think people will be compelled to do the opposite to which I subscribe. You think perhaps I think you just walked out a "cotton field". If you carry that "logic" one step further you would then have me believe that people smoke....well because I said it was bad, unhealthy etc. If you really believe that.........your head is still stuck in teenage-land. A land where everything an adult says ....you are driven to do opposite. You feel I have strong opinions that are best left to myself? Being strong on smoking may not win me friends but I still believe that I am right.

fiestynurse · Mar 3, 2002

Unless those who presume to play God are prevented from imposing their dictates on the population in this manner, be prepared to live your life the way you are told to by clinical authorities. Smokers will not be the last group singled out for 'lifestyle correction' if this inversion of medicine is permitted.

When a doctor becomes judge and censor of the behaviour of another human being, his profession is not a physician, but an executioner.

Winnipeg Dr. Frederick Ross has been quoted as saying,

"We're trying to make a smoke-free province . . . I'm doing my part,"

Winnipeg Free Press, 21 December 2001

This modern day self -directed medical mandate to kill by refusing treatment to smokers is not unique to Canada. Australia has imposed this death sentence for 'disobedience' before.

For the time being, until the ethics and suitability for the profession of those who place more importance on an agenda than patient care is clarified, it's just as well that patients are served notice of a Dr.'s priority. Placing your treatment in the hands of someone who thinks this way would definitely not be a wise move.

The need to react strongly in opposition to this proposed new social hierarchy, and redefinition of medical parametres, can't be overstated.

disher · Mar 3, 2002

Yeesh, hot topic... seems to be derailing in all different directions..Fiestynurse proposing that Dr. Ross is an executioner for asking his patients to see another doctor... is uhm creative thinking to say the least... How will the patient be harmed if asked to see another doctor? I understand about the dangers of precedent setting, but does that means we keep the status quo?

pebbles, BSN, RN · Mar 3, 2002

nobody is refusing to treat smokers.

people who smoke have an *addiction*.

addiction is an illness.

this dr is refusing to treat people who do not try to alleviate their own illness.

he is just refusing the ones who say "yah, i smoke, what are you gonna do about it?", and keep puffing away with disregard for their own health and the health of those around them. costing the system and this doctor time, money, etc. if they want to disregard their own health, why should they be supported in that effort by millions of dollars in high-tech health resources? you want to talk about execution, it looks like suicide to me. and it is unethical for a dr to help his patients commit suicide, right?

just to change the perspective expressed in feistynurse's post ....

wildhoney · Mar 3, 2002

Originally posted by pebbles

it looks like suicide to me. And it is unethical for a dr to help his patients commit suicide, right?

So what you're saying is--

People who smoke are trying to commit suicide? I can think of

faster ways to do that. No, I completely and vehemently disagree here. They're in DENIAL and deep down they're afraid. I could stand to lose some weight, I would probably be a lot healthier if I was thinner. Does this mean I'm trying to give myself a MI? Does this mean I'm trying to commit suicide? Heck no!

I also want to apologize to comparing smoking to drunk driving. I didn't mean it like it sounded, and I didn't express myself as clearly as I should have. For that I am sorry. That's one of the pitfalls of a message board, I can't see ya all and talk with my hands. :)

fiestynurse · Mar 4, 2002

There has been a disturbing trend in healthcare, where smokers are being refused treatments and procedures, based on the belief that smokers are poor healers and prone to complications. There was a recent lawsuit involving a patient who was refused triple by-pass surgery because he was a smoker. The guy claimed that he was discriminated against.

http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/background_briefings/smoking/newsid_343000/343078.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/02/08/australia.health.smoking/

wildhoney · Mar 4, 2002

That was an interesting article Fiestynurse. Thank you for sharing it.