This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
i feel the need to point out here that some people seem to be using the words blameless here a lot. i believe that is not the underlying idea at all. just because someone makes a mistake, maybe a small one (bc to er is human) doesnot warrant them getting almost killed for it by a supervisor or co-worker or pier. this also feeds into the nurses eating their young phenomenom. my first day of clinical in nursing school i was reluctant to give a patient an insulin shot bc i was afraid to stick a pt. now was i right in being nervous, of course NOT. to become a nurse u hav to get over it and stick the patient. Did it warrant my instructor yelling at me, humiliating me infront of the whole medical unit and telling me i was no good and will never amount to anything up to the point where i had to run into the bathroom in tears. OF COURSE NOT. so i guess my point here is that when we say say nurses eat their young, the people getting eaten are not necesarily blameless, not in every scenario but a little kindness could go a long way. being kind to a coworker will not only help them put it will make ur day go faster and better as well. please i know im not just speaking for myself but i go thro a lot at work almost daily, granted its not from everyone but if i have an opportunity to vent on allnurses.com and reduce my stress then i really dont need to be accused of being anti nursing or women. let me talk about my frustrations and maybe that'll help me. im actually begging here...
I felt your giving a scenario which occured to you was a perfect example of how not to treat someone who is still learning and new to nursing. Giving examples such as yours yes, shows that the term appears to apply.
It is the generalized statement without examples to follow up the claim which gets my goat. I appreciated your take on what happened to you. Your instructor should have been taken aside by someone and informed that humiliating anyone is not necessary to make them a good and competent nurse.
Wow, I wish I could have spent my first year working where you do. Sounds like an exceptional environment.
We have some fabulous nurses where I work who are great teachers and mentors. We also have some who are drawn like sharks to blood by any hint of weakness. Funny thing is these gals aren't always the best nurses who get everything done and done right on their shift. For some reason they need to find fault. It would be wonderful if those few would behave like the best.
Reality is I survived my first year working with these nurses and I am not going anywhere. The good experiences have far outweighed the bad. Those of us who remain too vulnerable get chewed the most. I think it is a shame that we have to toughen up to be happy in this field.
Mahage, the other person simply had written not all nurses eat their young, which I also concur with. Are you now trying to say yes, they do? Even though you yourself have written you worked with some very good mentors, and yes some that were not.
All some us are saying, is not every nurse is out to get a new nurse.
Please note that by moderator concensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above lilnk. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nuturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
End of sermon. LOL
NeoMastiff_RN: I believe that the issue lies in the "new" word. New nurses are NOT prepared for what the "real" world of nursing is. Schools are not doing their job and preparing nurses appropriately. This is where we get the dreaded phrase "nurses eat their young". It's not just nurses. It's HEALTHCARE in general with the high patient ratios and what not. There are studies that have shown that over half of all new grads will find a new job before their first year is up. Is it because they are not equipped to handle the ratios and emotional turmoil of patient care? I have always wondered why nurses only get a few months of orientation and physicians get 2 or more years of internship. Maybe colleges need to look at giving nurses the added requirement of internship. Also, there are so many opportunities and different types of nursing, why not experience them all to find what you truly love?
you worded your response very well. i think the thing is not that nurses eat their young, but that nurses are just mean to each other sometimes or maybe a lot. there is a clique where i am in temple tx made up of nurses who are whispering in front of people about the newer nurses or others and who will go out of their way to help members of their clique AND go out of their way to not help others. they order food for each other and don't make the offer to anyone else. they are always in the NM (who does not take action about the many complaints about this clique) office and when i try to talk to them, they blow me off and turn around and joke and laugh with a member of their clique. the excuse is that they are not there to be liked and no one has to like them to work together. but doesn't it make a place better to work if there is comraderie.
Mahage, the other person simply had written not all nurses eat their young, which I also concur with. Are you now trying to say yes, they do? Even though you yourself have written you worked with some very good mentors, and yes some that were not.
All some us are saying, is not every nurse is out to get a new nurse.
LPNflorida, I don't think I am "trying" to say yes, I said yes! I feel very strongly that there are many nurses who base at least part of their self esteem on making newer nurses look bad, either through being downright caustic and derogatory to their face or talking behind their backs. :angryfire It also seems that the more self confident new nurses get more "behind the back stuff" and those who may be more unsure or show more insecurities catch more directly scathing comments and responses from those who choose to be jerks. If you will read my other comments on this thread you will see that I have discussed the fact that it is definately a mixed bag.
What I believe is that nursing like most female dominated professions, is likely to have members who experience feelings of powerlessness. In any group where members feel powerless there is like to be a considerable amount of exploitation and abuse directed at members of the group which are least powerful, at least temporarily. I feel that nursing is a tough profession and as a fairly new nurse (1 year experience)I have learned to be tougher than I ever had to be in my 30 year career as a Social Worker. None self employed LCSW's do not generally make as much money as 2 yr RN's do, however the profession perceives itself as having some power within the workplace and even politically. It is around 50-60 % female and the master's degree is norm. Harsh treatment of new Social Workers is rarely seen in this profession and would never be accepted behavior. We as Social Workers are more apt to be critical of those perceived as equals and very protective of the "neophyte." Most all of us want to be the mentor or teacher.
There has been hard research which backs up the "nurses eat their young" theory. There is also research which backs the powerlessness/exploitation theory. Sorry I have not kept my research notes or I could quote sources. If anyone is interested in these topics there is a good bit out there.
By the way, we have a few seasoned LPN's on our unit and I have only had one of them behave in a condescending manner. Not nasty, just condescending. Three of my very favorite mentors are LPN's with a few years or more experience. I often draw the blood from their picc's and central lines and they give me great support and advice. I thought one of them was the charge nurse for several weeks when I first started, then she turned her badge around and I saw LPN!
I am not a nurse yet. But I've been in "eat their young" situations at other workplaces.
Anytime you have a working environment where:
1) The organization's leadership does not realize that culture is made, not born
2) People aren't taught about expected behavior, and
3) There is no enforcement when expected behavior is not happening
You will have a high-turnover environment.
Humans are largely fear-based, and that is only made worse by the insane society we've created for ourselves. It is a given that people are insecure.
Workplaces that move people into supervisory positions without regard to whether or not they can actually manage people, coupled with no training on how to manage people AND no punishment for doing poorly in that area, are high-turnover workplaces. Whether it's healthcare, publishing, law, whatever.
To me, the only solutions are:
1) for people to band together to consciously create the culture that they need (like others have stated) and
and if they don't do anything, forward that up to the next level?
am i just being niave? seems like the only thing the bullied have going for them is that they have nothing to lose. the middle managers sometimes use their position for emotional gratification (and thus are part of the problem and will not stop what's going on), but when you get up high enough, it's all about money and avoiding lawsuits (this is true in many industries, not just healthcare).
i mean, jcaho itself seems to lean towards that when it says:
"develop and implement a reporting/surveillance system (possibly anonymous) for detecting unprofessional behavior. include ombuds services(20) and patient advocates,(2,11) both of which provide important feedback from patients and families who may experience intimidating or disruptive behavior from health professionals. monitor system effectiveness through regular surveys, focus groups, peer and team member evaluations, or other methods.(10) have multiple and specific strategies to learn whether intimidating or disruptive behaviors exist or recur, such as through direct inquiries at routine intervals with staff, supervisors, and peers."
i mean, if the workplace is really hell on earth, versus the garden variety annoyances, why not try it?
lpnflorida, LPN
1,304 Posts
I felt your giving a scenario which occured to you was a perfect example of how not to treat someone who is still learning and new to nursing. Giving examples such as yours yes, shows that the term appears to apply.
It is the generalized statement without examples to follow up the claim which gets my goat. I appreciated your take on what happened to you. Your instructor should have been taken aside by someone and informed that humiliating anyone is not necessary to make them a good and competent nurse.