This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
to all those of u who are so bent on claiming that this phenomenom doesnt occur, can u seriously take a look inside urselves and think that all the people with tons of examples that have posted on here are just making this stuff up to make nursing look bad. common now seriously. personnally i hav experienced what is pure evil. let's face facts people. anyway, u all hav a happy thanksgiving. i know i will.
i don't think anyone has claimed that newbies haven't had bad experiences with senior nurses, (or that the reverse is not true). but i don't think that these examples are conclusive evidence that nurses eat their young. instead, i think they're anecdotal evidence that some nurses have difficulty with their co-workers. whether or not that difficulty is deserved is subject to interpretation, and varies by example.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
so 75% of nurses polled are wrong or lying?????? all these examples on this forum are confabulation?????
don't think so.....well, maybe not just their young, their old, too....
i think a lot of people take one bad experience (or a few bad experiences) and generalize that experience to say that nurses eat their young. and isn't that convenient. if it's all because nurses eat their young, that means they have no responsibility for their contribution to the problem.
I have often heard the comment that "nurses eat their young." One of my nursing instructors made this exact statement. What kind of crap is that? She did not elaborate on exactly how "nurses eat their young," but I am assuming that they treat them badly.
I have hope that the majority of nurses are not like that; however, I just don't understand that kind of unprofessional, unkind, and disrespectful behavior in a nurse. Is this true? I am beginning to believe that it is--especially if the manner in which my nursing instructors conduct themselves and treat their nursing students is any indication of things to come.
I know that if I make it through this program and become an RN (with or w/o experience), I most certainly will not treat anyone in this manner. I guess the bottom line is that there is good and bad in everything and everywhere.
i think a lot of people take one bad experience (or a few bad experiences) and generalize that experience to say that nurses eat their young. and isn't that convenient. if it's all because nurses eat their young, that means they have no responsibility for their contribution to the problem.
most of us seem to feel that "nurses eat their young." some of us feel that not using the phrase or attributing it to "a few bad experiences" is all too convenient. it is a way to deny that a problem exists and a way to avoid the responsibility to contribute to a valid solution. zero tolerance should be the standard. not zero tolerance for the phrase, zero tolerance for the behavior.
Most of us seem to feel that "nurses eat their young." Some of us feel that not using the phrase or attributing it to "a few bad experiences" is all too convenient. It is a way to deny that a problem exists and a way to avoid the responsibility to contribute to a valid solution. Zero tolerance should be the standard. Not zero tolerance for the phrase, zero tolerance for the behavior.
Yes, I find the behavior offensive, not the phrase. Those few bad experiences can be devastating. As a very new nurse, I felt that I could easily make a small mistake and really hurt someone, or miss some observation and let a condition go untreated and lead to death. This pressure combined with the "make her or break her" acuity level of my assignments gave me the feeling of drowning. I am however rather experienced in life and decided that I would get through it and get my patients through it as safely as I could. I knew that meant I had to get help from my more experienced colleagues.
I had one particular charge nurse who loved to speak to me in a very condescending manner, ignoring my real questions and lecturing me on things like "looking up meds" and reinforcing bandages, Duhhh! She was quick to do this everytime I asked a question, especially if it was in front of someone else. After one particularly bad night when she had behaved in a very derogatory manner toward me many times, and I had to squeeze the answer to my real question out of her, I made it a point to "thank her" for all her help and support at the desk in presence of the rest of the night crew. I had also stopped asking her questions and started asking other experienced nurses who weren't in charge. I think she got the point, she has never treated me that way again.
Another charge who happens to be the night ANM never missed an opportunity to answer my questions with a question. She obviously feels a strong need to help me learn critical thinking. Well this would be okay in certain situations but with the high level of acuity of my patients, I needed answers quick and certainly have the ability to think it through in the aftermath. I have told her this up front. She has gotten a bit better, but it was dangerous early on. I wonder if because of my age, she wasn't aware that I was a totally new nurse. I have had a couple of my coworkers tell me that they had no idea that I was a new grad when I started. I guess I really did look stupid since they thought I was experienced.
I will be loyal forever to the nurses who have given me information and assessed my patient when I couldn't tell what was going on, and the one who caught one of my patients as he developed a pnuemo and had me call the rapid response team in. The nurse who explained to me that I should get respiratory in on a patient who was having respiratory issues and order ABG's before calling the doc and this same nurse explained to me when another pt was having chest pains that I should order labs, get chest x-ray and ekg stat and call the doc after those orders were entered helped me more in those two separate minutes than all the questions that anyone could ask to "make me think!" This was about my 3rd week off orientation and the week after the worst charge nurse had made it a point to openly ream me.
I am old enough and have lived through enough in my life that I don't have a great fear of looking bad, but I was not stupid, I was new and in a position where I could easily hurt or kill someone by something I did wrong or by omission. A lot of my questions were me double checking. I asked an awful lot of questions and I still ask a lot.
No, absolutely, ALL nurses are not abusive or derogatory to the new nurses but the ones who are, do a heck of a lot of damage. The phrase "Nurses eat their young" is an analogy to describe some very dangerous behavior on the part of too many nurses in the profession. If I were replying to a thread about my heroes in nursing, I would have a lot to say also. So please nurses who take offense to the phrase, just know that few apply it to everyone. I do think that there is far more of this negative behavior in nursing than in any other profession I have been in or worked closely with. It needs to stop. Old timers can have a lot more impact in stopping the behavior than avoiding the use of the phrase by us newbies or others could ever help.
I read the article by the motivational speaker and having lived through the 80's and 90's as a psychotherapist, her article is positive self talk and New Age thought. I subscribe to some of both, however I know from experience that they can easily be confused with denial. It is the same as saying that other forms of abuse don't exist if we choose not to see it as abuse. Now that is avoiding responsibility! Name it, claim it and change it!
Those with the least power are not the ones who can make the changes needed........ other than giving the cannibal indigestion,LOL!
Specializes in med surg, geriatric, clinical, pool.
I have often heard the comment that "nurses eat their young." One of my nursing instructors made this exact statement. What kind of crap is that? She did not elaborate on exactly how "nurses eat their young," but I am assuming that they treat them badly.
I have hope that the majority of nurses are not like that; however, I just don't understand that kind of unprofessional, unkind, and disrespectful behavior in a nurse. Is this true? I am beginning to believe that it is--especially if the manner in which my nursing instructors conduct themselves and treat their nursing students is any indication of things to come.
I know that if I make it through this program and become an RN (with or w/o experience), I most certainly will not treat anyone in this manner. I guess the bottom line is that there is good and bad in everything and everywhere.
I had 8 yrs experience before I finally threw in the towel. I got so sick of being put on line and for what? So I could lose my license because of someone else's incompetence? I am an LPN, I have taken all of my RN prereqs.
I attended the RN program I failed by .3 of a point, come on, that stuff would have been easy once I got a little experience along the way, besides that, and get this, some of my answers were erased on the test! I had no way of proving it, so my advise is, answer all of your tests in ink!
It certainly left a sore taste in my mouth the day the head of the nursing program came to me in the hallway (I thought I had passed)where a bunch of us were talking, and said to me "I know you think you passed, but you didn't". My heart sank as she asked me to come to her office as she wanted to talk to me. I mostly remember her remark, "we all can't be astronauts". I am thinking back now some 20 yrs ago, this has never left me. My heart was so into nursing as that was all I ever wanted to do since I was a little girl. I was on cloud nine when I found out that there was "no discrimination" any more as I have epilepsy. Keep in mind I was 37 at this time with 2 little kids and a husband to take care of. So nursing was not easy after being out of school for such a long period of time. But I made it, all except the .3 of a point which was in pharmacology math (the test where the answers were erased). I wrote it all up 3 pages to the dean, but he told me he couldn't stand up for me since he did not know anything about nursing and he would have to take her word for things. So I let it go and just gave him what I had written up.
Later I ran into one of the girls that had also failed the big test and later took it again. She told me that the test had been cut in half, 25 questions as opposed to 50, that there were illistrations of empty syringes so the answer could be shaded in, and these were just two things I had written up in my paper I handed the dean.
I have thought about going back, but those horror thoughts just won't leave me alone.
So think about it before you continue. I would love to get into diabetic teaching because I love nutruition. But I do believe an RN degree is necessary to do that.
Good luck. I have more to say, but there is not enough space on here for me to do that!
I totally agree with you about the unprofessionalism of nurses, you would think nurses would be more compassionate, but no, they are some of the worst. And it is like you said, "its everywhere".
Specializes in med surg, geriatric, clinical, pool.
Yes, I find the behavior offensive, not the phrase. Those few bad experiences can be devastating. As a very new nurse, I felt that I could easily make a small mistake and really hurt someone, or miss some observation and let a condition go untreated and lead to death. This pressure combined with the "make her or break her" acuity level of my assignments gave me the feeling of drowning. I am however rather experienced in life and decided that I would get through it and get my patients through it as safely as I could. I knew that meant I had to get help from my more experienced colleagues.
I had one particular charge nurse who loved to speak to me in a very condescending manner, ignoring my real questions and lecturing me on things like "looking up meds" and reinforcing bandages, Duhhh! She was quick to do this everytime I asked a question, especially if it was in front of someone else. After one particularly bad night when she had behaved in a very derogatory manner toward me many times, and I had to squeeze the answer to my real question out of her, I made it a point to "thank her" for all her help and support at the desk in presence of the rest of the night crew. I had also stopped asking her questions and started asking other experienced nurses who weren't in charge. I think she got the point, she has never treated me that way again.
Another charge who happens to be the night ANM never missed an opportunity to answer my questions with a question. She obviously feels a strong need to help me learn critical thinking. Well this would be okay in certain situations but with the high level of acuity of my patients, I needed answers quick and certainly have the ability to think it through in the aftermath. I have told her this up front. She has gotten a bit better, but it was dangerous early on. I wonder if because of my age, she wasn't aware that I was a totally new nurse. I have had a couple of my coworkers tell me that they had no idea that I was a new grad when I started. I guess I really did look stupid since they thought I was experienced.
I will be loyal forever to the nurses who have given me information and assessed my patient when I couldn't tell what was going on, and the one who caught one of my patients as he developed a pnuemo and had me call the rapid response team in. The nurse who explained to me that I should get respiratory in on a patient who was having respiratory issues and order ABG's before calling the doc and this same nurse explained to me when another pt was having chest pains that I should order labs, get chest x-ray and ekg stat and call the doc after those orders were entered helped me more in those two separate minutes than all the questions that anyone could ask to "make me think!" This was about my 3rd week off orientation and the week after the worst charge nurse had made it a point to openly ream me.
I am old enough and have lived through enough in my life that I don't have a great fear of looking bad, but I was not stupid, I was new and in a position where I could easily hurt or kill someone by something I did wrong or by omission. A lot of my questions were me double checking. I asked an awful lot of questions and I still ask a lot.
No, absolutely, ALL nurses are not abusive or derogatory to the new nurses but the ones who are, do a heck of a lot of damage. The phrase "Nurses eat their young" is an analogy to describe some very dangerous behavior on the part of too many nurses in the profession. If I were replying to a thread about my heroes in nursing, I would have a lot to say also. So please nurses who take offense to the phrase, just know that few apply it to everyone. I do think that there is far more of this negative behavior in nursing than in any other profession I have been in or worked closely with. It needs to stop. Old timers can have a lot more impact in stopping the behavior than avoiding the use of the phrase by us newbies or others could ever help.
I read the article by the motivational speaker and having lived through the 80's and 90's as a psychotherapist, her article is positive self talk and New Age thought. I subscribe to some of both, however I know from experience that they can easily be confused with denial. It is the same as saying that other forms of abuse don't exist if we choose not to see it as abuse. Now that is avoiding responsibility! Name it, claim it and change it!
Those with the least power are not the ones who can make the changes needed........ other than giving the cannibal indigestion,LOL!
Mahage
As a new, but older nurse I myself was fired for something that should have been observed by my much older experienced nursing supervisors.
I was working 11-7, I received a new pt on top of my already 8 pts, so that was 9 pts compared to the other more experienced nurses' 7 pts.
For this new pt I was expected by dr's orders to go with her down to xray qh ( I was working on a post op floor). The other nurses were supposed to be checking my pts for me, guess they did not as one passed. I went in to get 4am vitals and she had been passed for quite some time. As a new nurse I guess I should have been doing more checking, but this incident was never "counted against" me on my license, they just wanted to get rid of me. Another charge RN from another floor already clued/warned me of that.
Another nurse I worked with had a pt where she was supposed to get a temp and failed to do so, she was AfAm (don't hold this against me just telling it like it was) and had more experience too, & her pt also died. She wasn't fired. Ok what is wrong with this picture? We both failed to do something, but only I was booted.
It was blessing in disguise really.
I left and went to agency nursing where I had a blast compared to going to work every night at the hospital! I hate working politics, its so juvenile.
There were others that I worked with at the hospital that noticed how unjust I was being treated ( I got all of the isolation pts too) and those nurses all suggested I go to this certain lawyer....I did...she was AfAm...very nice lady...but told me I was the wrong color for her to help me.
I said "thanks" and left. There seems to be a double standard here. Don't get me wrong I know and worked with a lot of AfAm nurses that were darn good nurses. After all its "whats on the inside that counts"!
Now Huck, my ole' hide ain't tender! I guess thats cause I'm an old recycled Social Worker, store owner, factory worker, waitress newly turned Nurse who can be too darn stubborn to leave.
During my first few months off orientation, I generally got 1-2 vents, 3 trachs, 3 tube feedings, 2 isolations and 2 restraints in my assignment. I work IMCU and we always have several patients on vents on the floor and many, many with trachs. We are assigned 3 patients each. It looked to me like someone went out of their way to make sure I got more than my share of "Learning Opportunities" early on. I was at work till 8:30 every morning charting. Then I overheard the ANM telling someone that I was there every morning late. I went to her and told her that I was not there hanging out just for the overtime, but to do my job and take care of my patients, I could not stop and chart! She said she didn't mean to imply that I was "riding the clock" or even slow, just that I was willing to hang in and get the job done. I am not sure to believe her or not, but I have noticed that I stopped getting such a high acuity assignments. The ANM's and the charge nurses all say they don't make the schedule. Now I know better. It is funny how they always point the finger at each other on those disporportionate loads. I rarely ask to have a patient changed, but have asked for a nurse tech to be assigned and got her.
I pride myself on being one to hang in there, but sometimes I think I go too far in that direction and probably should speak up. I believe the practice of giving newbies such a high level of acuity is irresponsible and dangerous. I know I have been over my head many times. Fortunately some of the "good guys or gals" were around to pull me out. A couple of times, I had to go begging when I had unresponsive charge nurses. I have had 2 patients going bad at the same time with a third getting up and running down the hall who happend to be on respiratory isolation, with the stupid charge nurse snapping at me "you need to tell her to go to her room." I have had night ANM come in when I was doing trach care and yell at me because I hadn't updated her book and then the vent alarm started going off and she started yelling over the vent alarm that I "better plug up my computer or it was going to die." Now why in the heck she couldn't have plugged in the computer for me, and asked me to update when I got a chance ? I just don't get these peoples behavior. I learned that there were two charges I liked to work with and two who were jerks, one of which was the night ANM. I just tried to schedule myself to work on the nights that these gals who I liked were charge, but sometimes I couldn't. I have just learned to rely on those who I can rely on when needed. I don't feel like I am drowning too often anymore, but I doubt I ever forget what it feels like to be in that situation.
I have seen the way the latest batch of new nurses are treated by more experienced staff. I have noticed that though only one of the newbies are treated as equals (she was an exceptional nurse tech there for a year) they picked out 2 of the 11 new nurses to focus most of their derogatory comments toward. I was the only new nurse when I came. Maybe these gals have it a bit better in that the crap can be spread out, where I caught it all, LOL! I have made it a point to go out of my way to be helpful to these young women. One of them is really insecure, if the other one is she doesn't show it, but is not liked because she is very "proper" and is seen as a "goody two-shoes" type. I have precepted her and know her to be a bit obsessive compulsive but an excellent hard working nurse. The girl who is insecure, just picks things up a little slower than some, but she doesn't seem overly slow to me. I have been assigned patients next to hers and have helped her out a good bit because I know what it feels like to be overwhelmed.
The way the patient care techs treat all the new nurses is shameful. With the exception of one or two of them, they will not help the new nurses with changes when needed and the new nurses have to do all their cleanups and changes with one another. The techs just won't come. I make it a point to help them out while the "experienced" nurses set at the desk and chart or surf and gossip. Some read books and others go smoke, while the few of us are working our butts off! This is not true across the board each and every time, but it has been much of the time. I am certainly too busy to know what everyone is doing all the time, but you can't help but notice, when you run to supply room and 6 nurses and two techs are sitting around laughing at the desk and eating pizza or chinese food! Seems like most of them have enough time to eat.
Well I've vented enough this morning!
Mahage
OMG! i was overwhelmed just reading about ur experience as a newbie. that is very scary to me. I could relate 100% too bc although technically im not a nurse yet( its a long story read my thread, trouble getting RN license somewhere on this forum) i hav e been in such situations as an NA. where u find yourself so overwhelmed and everything is going on at the same time and s'one is screaming and yelling at u instead of possibly helping out a little. i hope i dont hav to go thro that as an RN though mostly coz im not so sure if i can take it anymore. well we'll find out, wont we. i however want to commend u for hanging in there and not only that but turning ur negative experience and then helping out new grads instead of making them suffer the same faith as you at least not from ur end. the profession needs more people like u and some say nurses dont eat their young. well good luck and keep up with the good work.
She did not elaborate on exactly how "nurses eat their young," but I am assuming that they treat them badly.
Ruby Vee, BSN
17 Articles; 14,051 Posts
i don't think anyone has claimed that newbies haven't had bad experiences with senior nurses, (or that the reverse is not true). but i don't think that these examples are conclusive evidence that nurses eat their young. instead, i think they're anecdotal evidence that some nurses have difficulty with their co-workers. whether or not that difficulty is deserved is subject to interpretation, and varies by example.