DNP vs. PhD

[jewelcutt]

Just curious, with all of this DNP talk does anyone think that less people will go for the PhD now. We have so few PhDs as it is I just wonder what will happen with existing nursing doctorates. And what about the DNSc, is that being phased out? Or is it still available?

[elkpark]

And lets face it the AACN is the one calling the shots as they are the one who credentials....they will be professors and they will be elligible for tenure...no ifs ands or buts about it.

~MarineRN

What shots do you think the AACN calls? It is a professional interest organization, nothing more. It advocates for its members' interests and offers voluntary accreditation of BSN-and-higher nursing programs. They can't even force their own members to do anything they don't want to (look on their website for the latest update on the DNP-as-minimum-for-advanced-practice-proposal to see how many AACN-member graduate programs in nursing are not currently planning to change their advanced practice MSN programs to DNP programs). They have no control over the larger academic community -- lots of schools require a PhD for full professorship and eligibility for tenure, in all departments/colleges, across the board, and nursing is not going to get any special treatment (nor should we -- IMO, nursing should be held to the same standards and expectations as any other academic discipline).

The AACN can say that it's "confident" that DNPs "will compete favorably with other practice doctorates in tenure and promotion decisions," but, as the old saying goes, that and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee. :) There will be some schools at which DNPs are eligible for tenure and others at which they are not. It's not as simple or clear-cut an issue as you seem to think.

The group, despite all its talk and position papers promoting the idea, has no control over making the DNP the minimum preparation for advanced practice (which, as sirI noted, is still a proposal, not a requirement, although many schools are switching their MSN advanced programs to DNPs) -- all they can do is advocate for their position and hope that the people and groups that do control certification and licensure will eventually climb on the bandwagon.

[marineRN]

You underestimate the pull of the AACN, hospitals dont HAVE to be JCAHO accreditation....does not make them any less powerful. And yes....nursing is different than nontechnical degrees where the PhD is the highest degree. Just as in Law, Med, Divinity. Some profs have a PhD but not all. The degree that is required to be a prof is the Md, Jd, Div etc....not the PhD. PhD means you are trained in RESEARCH not TEACHING. Now I stipulated that if the entry to NP does become DNP only it will largely phaze out PhD instructors in those programs, if it changes then that may not be the case. Now about tenure.....as it changes for the larger academic world it will effect tenure of DnP profs b/c it will effect all profs, and it should be changed as it has largely created an environment of liberal profs who can sit on their laurels and spew their ideology immune from everything as opposed to fostering "academic freedom" as it was intended.

Blessings,

MarineRN

[Mission]

You underestimate the pull of the AACN, hospitals dont HAVE to be JCAHO accreditation....does not make them any less powerful. And yes....nursing is different than nontechnical degrees where the PhD is the highest degree. Just as in Law, Med, Divinity. Some profs have a PhD but not all. The degree that is required to be a prof is the Md, Jd, Div etc....not the PhD. PhD means you are trained in RESEARCH not TEACHING. Now I stipulated that if the entry to NP does become DNP only it will largely phaze out PhD instructors in those programs, if it changes then that may not be the case. Now about tenure.....as it changes for the larger academic world it will effect tenure of DnP profs b/c it will effect all profs, and it should be changed as it has largely created an environment of liberal profs who can sit on their laurels and spew their ideology immune from everything as opposed to fostering "academic freedom" as it was intended.

Blessings,

MarineRN

The NIH has much more power than the AACN. Unless the NIH is going to start giving research dollars to DNPs they are not going to be on equal footing as PhDs when it comes to tenure.

[marineRN]

That is true, but as more schools start switching others will follow suit. It is inevitable. Then we will end up like Med, Pharm, Dentistry, Podiatry etc...as it should be. PhD will be a component of advancing the practice of nursing, but the clinical degree (DnP) will be the required degree to be a prof.

[marineRN]

And the real reason why it will change is because the "old guard" of nursing education and academic administrators will NEVER advocate for less education, and as it has already started to change they will be falling over themselves to follow suit as they believe it will increase their prestige and money.