DNP vs MD/DO

DrZaphod, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, NP · Apr 21, 2017

I think the guy said equivalent outcomes. The difference in educational rigor is obvious, but apparently makes no difference to patient outcomes. I think some med schools are actually changing the curriculum, as they have no idea how years of research could show that with their hard sciences, they still do the same, or lesser work, than NPs.

DrZaphod, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, NP · Apr 21, 2017

Good point, NPs have far less lawsuits filed against them. This might have to do with time spent, but I'm not sure.

DrZaphod, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, NP · Apr 21, 2017

Yeah, the article was a bit belligerent, but never attacked the education of physicians, just pointed to the fact that the 4 years of post-Bac work, even if more rigorous with hard sciences, didn't lead to any better outcomes.

These are good points you make.

DrZaphod, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, NP · Apr 21, 2017

Not sure what you mean by "level of education." Research simply demonstrates equivalent or better outcomes on at least 25 outcomes like diabetes, HTN, etc., despite the difference in rigor. I hear you about battle-axes, but Flo did figure out that disease could be transmitted through blood while the surgeons ignored her.

DrZaphod, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, NP · Apr 21, 2017

The CRNAs have it hard. They still get paid about 1/4 of what an anesthesiologist gets paid for the same work and better outcomes. It's bizarre.

DrZaphod, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, NP · Apr 21, 2017

Fellowships are post-doctoral things and have nothing to do with 4 years post-Bac plus "residency." Are you one of the self-hating nurses? The NPs I know all worked for one year as an RN then immediately left to pursue becoming a doctor.

DrZaphod, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, NP · Apr 21, 2017

Actually, I think it's spot on. Tons of research backing it. Where do you get the idea that the writing is dishonest or delusional? Can you cite some sources?

Bluebolt · Apr 21, 2017

I'm assuming Madglee is responding to different posts without qouting said post, so it's kind of confusing...

I'm assuming your comment about CRNA's getting 1/4 the pay is towards myself.

It would probably be more accurate to say CRNAs make half the pay or maybe 1/3 the pay of anesthesiologists if they take low ball offers.

I think you'll anticipate a change in that in the near future as more hospitals decide to go with CRNA groups who produce the same outcomes for half the cost. For anesthsiologists to stay marketable they will probably have to take a significant pay cut or offer some extensive extra work to make them valuable.

SopranoKris, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 22, 2017

Actually, I think it's spot on. Tons of research backing it. Where do you get the idea that the writing is dishonest or delusional? Can you cite some sources?

I never said it was delusional. I said it wasn't credible because you didn't cite any of your sources at all and just made blanket statements in your article by saying "studies have shown". You need to back it up with the actual studies.

hogger · Apr 27, 2017

I think I could treat every metric provided in every single NP vs MD/DO comparison study half way through my third year of med school. Now do a study that compares treatment and management of actual difficult to manage diagnoses and if equal I might take this seriously. Don't get me wrong, as a resident I love working with NP/PAs, at least the ones who do not have the God complex this website person seems to have.

I can dribble a basketball, and even dunk it, but that does not mean that i am Lebron James and as adequate at everything in the world of basket ball. My truck also drives just as well in a straight line at 60MPH as does a Porsche 911, doesnt mean it can do everything else as well. At least I am in GI and I don't see nurses trying to nab scopes and biopsies from us very soon lol.

Bluebolt · Apr 29, 2017

I think I could treat every metric provided in every single NP vs MD/DO comparison study half way through my third year of med school. Now do a study that compares treatment and management of actual difficult to manage diagnoses and if equal I might take this seriously. Don't get me wrong, as a resident I love working with NP/PAs, at least the ones who do not have the God complex this website person seems to have.
I can dribble a basketball, and even dunk it, but that does not mean that i am Lebron James and as adequate at everything in the world of basket ball. My truck also drives just as well in a straight line at 60MPH as does a Porsche 911, doesnt mean it can do everything else as well. At least I am in GI and I don't see nurses trying to nab scopes and biopsies from us very soon lol.

I think the future for MDs/DOs will be in medical research and high level specialties like cardiothoracic surgery, rheumatology, Oculoplastics etc. Something that really requires 7 year residencies/fellowships to know it well. It looks like a lot of these general medical fields will be taken over by APRNs who can provide more healthcare to those who can't afford it, which is most Americans.

hogger · Apr 29, 2017

yeah more than likely. all my fp buds got pretty good gigs though and I don't see that going away. Much of it was for providing supervision to NP/PAs in large clinic settings. It seemed even in the independent np states they said many hospitals always want an attending physician there with them for QA on some of the less seen cases. There is some anecdotal evidence though pointing toward primary care being more complicated than it has in the past, with places adding in genetic counseling and a few other ancillary services. in IM we had a whole section on genetics and had to do some loosely set up rotation in it with genetic expert people or whatever they are called now. I don't think they will ever completely get rid of primary care physicians, there will always be some market for them. Whether they maintain majority or not though is up to dispute either way.

I see you are in crna school, I will give them credit for nearly always doing a good job though. Do not see much difference between mda/crna in on the cases I do, but then again I am not really doing many high risk procedures besides the occasional banding on some cirrhotic patient that's hemoing from EV. If I remember from past rotations they usually had an MDA in on most super-high-risk cases, but I never really paid much attention to what they did diff than CRNAs. I work with more crna/mda residents than people who have completed mda residencies since everybody wants a day off from the life of difficult to sit there and pump benzos and read books for scopes.