Direct-entry MSN programs

janony · Feb 3, 2006

Hey, just noticed our ages are posted with our posts. Guess we're *exactly* the same age. Too funny!

lovingpecola · Feb 3, 2006

Elizabells,

Do you have to find your own preceptors for clinicals?

Considering Columbia, thanks,

LovingPecola

elizabells, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2006

Elizabells,
Do you have to find your own preceptors for clinicals?
Considering Columbia, thanks,
LovingPecola

nonono. For the first set, over the summer, you're in groups of about ten, partnered up, doing one day a week. For fall and winter we have something called "five by five" meaning five rotations, five weeks long. You're in a class of about thirty five for the didactic portion and groups of eightish for clinicals, two days a week. You stay with the same group all through, except for community. Then in the spring you have Integration, where it's you, one on one, with an RN, working her schedule - so, 3 12 hour shifts/week. Integration is usually in the field you're going to be doing for Master's. Not only do we not have to find our own preceptors, requests are generally not considered, except a leeeeetle bit in community. For integration, if you NEED to work nights or somewhere not in Manhattan, you can tell them that.

elizabells, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2006

Hey, just noticed our ages are posted with our posts. Guess we're *exactly* the same age. Too funny!

Wow! Where were you born? It would be funny if we were born at the same time in the same hospital....

lovingpecola · Feb 3, 2006

Ok Thanks for clearing that up!!!!!

janony · Feb 3, 2006

well, d*mn!

I just got my letter from Hopkins... and yes, I'm admitted (to the accelerated program), like they told me on the phone. But there are 2 issues..

1. The letter says my "application is provisional pending... (list a/p etc here)... and Official transcript awarding PhD from Harvard." Uh-oh. I will have those pre-reqs done by then, but my desire to go to nursing school has to do with NOT finishing the PhD. Arg. I emailed them for clarification... but what is up with this sort of conditional acceptance?!!! :uhoh21:

2. They want $500 by Feb 15. That's probably before I'll hear from the other schools (boston) that I would probably rather attend. And I don't have $500 to burn.

Guess it's not looking like I'll be attending Hopkins. I feel like a loser now. :crying2:

janony

Gennaver, MSN · Feb 4, 2006

well, d*mn!
I just got my letter from Hopkins... and yes, I'm admitted (to the accelerated program), like they told me on the phone. But there are 2 issues..
1. The letter says my "application is provisional pending... (list a/p etc here)... and Official transcript awarding PhD from Harvard." Uh-oh. I will have those pre-reqs done by then, but my desire to go to nursing school has to do with NOT finishing the PhD. Arg. I emailed them for clarification... but what is up with this sort of conditional acceptance?!!! :uhoh21:
2. They want $500 by Feb 15. That's probably before I'll hear from the other schools (boston) that I would probably rather attend. And I don't have $500 to burn.
Guess it's not looking like I'll be attending Hopkins. I feel like a loser now.
janony

Hold up there janony,

Please do not give up without asking and maybe asking again for them to reconsider without the provisional PhD. Find out who to talk to and make sure its documented, (ask them to fax or email you copy of the non-provisional agreement). Good luck!

Gen

Jess RN · Feb 4, 2006

2. They want $500 by Feb 15. That's probably before I'll hear from the other schools (boston) that I would probably rather attend. And I don't have $500 to burn.
Guess it's not looking like I'll be attending Hopkins. I feel like a loser now.

I think you could maybe get an extension on the 2/15 deadline if you explained you are waiting to hear from other schools. Or you could try to exert some gentle pressure on the Boston schools, and see if you can get an early decision from them.

The provisional acceptance pending your PhD seems like an administrative mistake or misunderstanding. I think a call to the admissions office would probably be all that's needed to clarify. I mean, it's not as if a PhD is a prerequisite to direct entry programs, right? :chuckle

Would you prefer Hopkins over the Boston schools? If so- I bet there's a way to make it work.

Keep us posted how it shakes out.

-Jess

Jess RN · Feb 4, 2006

No I haven't read any of her books. But I just finished two of Echo Heron's books and really enjoyed them. So I emailed her to ask her some questions, and she actually answered me! Have you read any of her books? Did you like them? Also, what was Suzanne Gordon saying? She doesn't think bedside nurses should go into acadamia? she doesn't like direct entry programs? Why not? I am not sure if I understood what you were saying. Krisssy

She was invited to BC to speak on "clinical innovations in nursing". She didn't really talk about any specific clinical innovations- but rather spent most of her talk lamenting the derth of nursing students who plan to work at the bedside for their careers. She pointed out that the nursing shortage is for nurses who work at the bedside, not NPs or CNSs. Also, that it takes 5 years of clinical experience for new nurses to become competant, and that novice nurses are more likely to make serious errors. She said that the idea that a non-nurse can go through 2 or 3 years in a direct entry program and then be truly an "advanced" practice nurse or a nurse "leader" is unlikely. She said she felt that the term "advanced practice nurse" set up a hirearchy among nurses that is damaging to nurses. It implies that a bedside nurse shouldn't reallybe content to stay at the bedside, she should want to advance to be an "advanced" nurse.

She said a lot of great things, so I'm not really bashing her. She wants the smartest, most experienced, most job-satistfied, most respected, most well-compensated bedside nurses possible. The thing was though, that it sounded like a lot of ranting, without a lot of solutions. AND she was talking to a room full of "advanced practice nurses" and "nurse leaders" and at least one direct entry student (me!). It was hardly the audience that would be endeared to that kind of rhetoric. I almost stood up and gave my 2c that I applied to cc for nursing school as well as my direct entry programs- and aside from the fact that they were extremly literal and bureacratic in thier application process (wanted me to take college writing and college math as prereqs- I was an English major undergrad and had completed a statistics course for my direct entry pre reqs). They gave no weight to my grades or my degree- I would go on the waitlist like everybody else, and I would get to start nursing classes in 18 mo (earliest) or 2 1/2 years (more likely). So, even if I wanted to be a bedside nurse, I'd be better off going through the direct entry program and working as an RN with the salary earned sooner, rather than later offsetting the higher tuition.

My experiences applying to schools have convinced me that the nursing shortage is more about lack of nursing faculty and poorly run nursing progams who admit students who are not likely to succeed in the program. Lots of people want to go into nursing!!! Nursing schools are flooded with apps each year! That's not the problem. The cc I applied to had a 40% attrition rate within the program. So, clearly they were not being selective enough and admitted people based on their willingness to stick it out on the waitlist- not their ability to succeed in the program.

I don't expect to be an expert when I graduate. And I think it is likely even with my NP, I will work at the bedside for quite a while to get my bearings and feel like I can work safely in an "advanced" capacity. But to dis direct-entry programs, when there aren't a lot of feasable alternative routes to nursing for some seems misplaced to me...

Sorry for the rant!

Jess

smile123 · Feb 4, 2006

well, d*mn!
I just got my letter from Hopkins... and yes, I'm admitted (to the accelerated program), like they told me on the phone. But there are 2 issues..
1. The letter says my "application is provisional pending... (list a/p etc here)... and Official transcript awarding PhD from Harvard." Uh-oh. I will have those pre-reqs done by then, but my desire to go to nursing school has to do with NOT finishing the PhD. Arg. I emailed them for clarification... but what is up with this sort of conditional acceptance?!!! :uhoh21:
2. They want $500 by Feb 15. That's probably before I'll hear from the other schools (boston) that I would probably rather attend. And I don't have $500 to burn.
Guess it's not looking like I'll be attending Hopkins. I feel like a loser now.
janony

Definitely do call them and ask for clarification. There were a few people admitted to Hopkins that were conditional meaning they had to take microbiology while they were in the program because they hadn't taken it yet. Usually, they just want you to have a bachelor's degree to be in the program, so I quite surprised about needing to complete the Ph.D. If you explained you already had a BS, I'm sure that would suffice. (It could be a form type response that they did not look over carefully enough in your case.)

You could definitely call your other schools and leverage off your acceptance at Hopkins. Let them know you were accepted at another school - do they have an update on you? Or could they tell you more about your application? I did that last year and one of them told me that I was accepted (so I found out 2 months early) and that helped to make my decision. Hopkins may also be willing to give you a little more time to turn in your deposit. It's better when you can talk to someone in admissions rather than email in this case. Good luck!

Smile123

janony · Feb 5, 2006

Thanks for the advice / good luck. I did email the folks at Hopkins about the conditional acceptance - hopefullly it's just a mistake. I do have a BS (kinda tough to get into a PhD program without one, yknow?). I don't see how they'd decide that I need to finish the PhD to be sucessfull in their program - it's not like 3 more years of tedium in my lab is going to teach me something cruical for nursing, is it?

After I hear back from them, I'll call the other schools and exert some pressure. I really would like to be able to make a decision based on complete information!

Thanks again, and hope yall are enjoying the weekend! :-)

janony

PS - a story for the morning. so, my gram's really sick (terminal cancer, among other things - perforated duodenal ulcer the latest disaster) and has been hospitalized for awhile. She's now on contact precautions for MRSA. My somewhat-senile grandpa loves this, because it means he has access to the isolation gowns. So he's been walking around the hospital with an isolation gown on backwards, and surgical mask over just his mouth (not nose). He says people think he's a doctor, and asked me if i can get him a stethoscope.

what an image! :rolleyes:

fotografe · Feb 5, 2006

Hello my higher ed friends,

I am your resident lurker just checking in. Some of you may remember me as the person in Boston who chose to attend an ADN program instead of the Direct Entry. I keep reading this board to hear how your programs are going, and to help me decide which graduate program to attend when the time comes. I really admire those of you who are doing these programs. I am in a 4 semester RN program, and I feel like the amount of material I am to learn and the speed at which it is presented is overwhelming at times. I can only imagine how you guys are feeling!

How much clinical time are your programs giving you? In my first semester we were in a nursing home for about 50 hours, then on a med-surg floor for about 50 hours. This semester we are in Maternity for about 75 hours and Med-Surg about 75 hours. We have the summer off so I am looking for a CNA position for the summer -- applying B & W, BMC and South Shore so far. For those of you who have had clinicals at B & W or BMC, how have you liked those facilities?

Good luck to you all.

Kathi