Direct Entry CNL programs if you want to be an RN, not a CNL?

UVA Grad Nursing · May 17, 2011

Well, a CNL is a RN. A RN is anyone who has passed the national RN licensure examination (NCLEX-RN) and is has met the qualification of the State Board of Nursing.

I think the name "CNL" is unfortunate and somewhat misleading. Granted there was a 'White Paper' on the behaviors of what a Clinical Nurse Leader should exhibit that came out in 2003-4. No recent CNL graduate (whether Direct Entry or one who has been a nurse for many years) can exhibit those dozens of behaviors to the standard mentioned in the White Paper at the time when they graduate. I prefer to think of the National Standard of the CNL as shown in the White Paper similar to what a textbook Girl Scout/Eagle Scout should look like (leap over tall buildings, eliminate all medical errors, etc). Similarly, no one expects a brand new Nurse Practitioner graduate to have all of the abilities as one who has been practicing for many years. I prefer to think of the CNL Guidelines as something for CNL graduates to aspire to.

My University has offered a Direct Entry CNL program since 2005. We also offer ADN-CNL and BSN-CNL tracks as well. All of the graduates of our Direct Entry program go to work as bedside nurses. Some have gone on to further study (advanced practice certifications, PhD, DNP, etc), some have been promoted to leadership positions (unit manager, outcomes manager, revising the discharge procedures for the entire hospital, etc). But all worked as bedside RNs --- and many are still doing this several years after graduation since they love patient care.

We have found that our Direct Entry CNL grads have had the same job opportunities as our BSN graduates. Both groups of students are going to the same types of hospitals and getting hired at the same rate. At some sites, the CNL grads are coming off probation and being promoted up the clinical ladder a bit faster than the BSN graduate.

We tell all prospective CNL applicants that they will work as bedside nurses, and will go into the same novice RN/new grad positions that BSN grads go into. What they do with themselves after that point is up to them and their employer.

Contact the schools that interest you, and ask to speak with some recent grads of their programs.

santacruzer · Sep 7, 2011

UVA Grad Nursing,

You touched on this in your post, but I would like to clarify...You believe that CNL and BSN holders are hired at the same rates? I would think a CNL would out-compete a BSN because the CNL has a higher degree (MSN). In addition, do CNL and BSN holders make the same amount of money in an RN position?

I am debating whether to do an accelerated BSN and then get a masters suited for NP or to do a direct-entry CNL then certificate for NP. Any advice wil help and is greatly appreciated, thank you.

danceluver · Sep 7, 2011

just so you know, i think you can still get loans (not unsub) for a absn program if you haven't used the max loans for your 1st undergrad degree. There is a limit you can borrow as an undergrad and if you haven't even met the limit you'll be able to borrow the difference. hope this helps

UVA Grad Nursing · Sep 7, 2011

Santa

We have seen our direct entry CNLs start at the same level (novice nurse) as ABSN grads. Some have been hired at the same hourly rate, others at 25 cents/hr more. But the CNLs have risen more quickly up the ladder are received promotions faster (and given more responsible assignments

santacruzer · Sep 7, 2011

UVA Grad,

Great clarification. I've followed many of your posts, and you have been very helpful to many anxious-ridden prospective nursing students like myself. So on behalf of all of us, thank you!

If you could help me a bit more with my personal dilemma, I'd really appreciate it. Getting quality advice has been exceedingly difficult.

I live in California so I know the situation is different from state to state but any advice is deeply appreciated. Here is my story...

I recently graduated from a UC in CA with a degree in anthropology, summa cum laude with honors in my major. I have performed anthropological research with a few different professors and worked as a tutor for human anatomy taught with cadavers. The only health care experience I have was volunteering on a week "medical brigade" in Honduras. I've also interned as a primate caregiver for little Asian apes, if that counts :-)

Now I am at a fork in the road: I could apply to a highly competitive, highly prestigious UC direct entry program for CNL OR go to a less competitive, less prestigious accelerated BSN program from a private, nonprofit but fully accredited university.

Both programs are 2 years in length but I still have pre-recs to take. I am taking the pre-recs at the institution the BSN program is offered because it was easy to enroll and I could start the BSN a whole year earlier than the MSN. Taking tuition and cost of living into account, they would both cost about the same.

I ultimately want to be a NP so despite the route I take from here on out, I would eventually need to "go back to school" i.e. go BSN-->MSN OR MSN (CNL)-->certificate for NP.

So my ultimate question is: Does it really matter which route I go??? With either degree, I'll be working the same RN position and need to go back to school to be an NP.

However, taking into account the economic climate, would having a higher degree from a more prestigious university be better because I'll have better job opportunities? Or should I go the quicker route to getting my degree, first job and further experience but with a lower degree?

I'm at a total loss...

Sorry for such a long-winded post but I taking my academics and prospective career very seriously so I want to make the best decision I can.

UVA Grad Nursing · Sep 9, 2011

Santa:

I would encourage you to aim for the UC program first for several reasons. One, it will be less expensive than any private program since you are an instate student-- and less debt can often be a good thing. Two, graduates of for-profit schools are often not were regarded by many hiring officials or graduate programs. I know of several nurse recruiters who place for-profit new grads below community college grads. At my university, we have seen poorer outcomes from for-profit grads as well (higher attrition rates, weaker writing/analytical skills, etc).

If you are up for a move, you also might find out-of state tuition at a non-UC public university surprisingly affordable too.

I also realize that I may have a slight bias. All of my own degrees are from traditional universities (public and private).

cbrubaker05 · May 15, 2012

Has anyone heard anything else about this? I am wondering the same exact thing...if I pursue direct-entry CNL MSN program instead of an accelerated 2nd degree BSN program, will I have different/less/more job opportunities? I still want to work for a few years as a bedside nurse to nail down what interests me most, but I know myself and I will most likely pursue and advanced nursing degree in the future anyway, so I figure a master's degree is a better choice than second bachelor degree...or am I totally wrong??

Thanks!

Rrrrn · Aug 7, 2012

I was recently wrestling with the same decision....I ultimately chose a traditional iniv. After all is said and done cost differs about 10 grand. I found that when I told other nurses about my educational plans I was better received when I had chosen USF versus Walden univ. there is a bit of a stigma when it comes to traditional univ. and "online" or accelerated education. In the end I felt a stronger seance of pride with USF, I'm a local, and knew I would for the rest of my career...resumes , interviews, and peer introductions often include educational background...just my take, good Luck all!

the healer's art · Oct 19, 2012

Has anyone heard anything else about this? I am wondering the same exact thing...if I pursue direct-entry CNL MSN program instead of an accelerated 2nd degree BSN program, will I have different/less/more job opportunities? I still want to work for a few years as a bedside nurse to nail down what interests me most, but I know myself and I will most likely pursue and advanced nursing degree in the future anyway, so I figure a master's degree is a better choice than second bachelor degree...or am I totally wrong??
Thanks!

Yeah I am curious about this too. I already know I want to eventually become an acute pediatric NP. but I do want to work as an RN in a PICU for at least a year before I pursue that because after reading some stuff here I know that most people don't like to hire direct-entry NPs. Some programs (like Columbia, Duke, Northeastern) make you work as an RN for a while before doing the Masters so I'm leaning towards those programs.

But I'm not sure if doing an ABSN first is smarter/more quickly hirable or if the MSN would be. I definitely do not ever want to work as a CNL but if I'd be more likely to be hired as an RN with a MSN then I'd wanna do that!