I remembered reading an old post awhile ago where an NP (who got her DNP) was told by Human Resources that she couldn't use the title "Doctor" at the hospital, because it would mislead the patients.
I am wondering if anyone has seen or heard anything similar where they work (you personally or someone else).
If hospitals are "all about introductions", I see nothing wrong with telling a patient, "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, I'm a Nurse Practioner"...I see no difference between that and saying, "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones and I'm your Cardiologist".
To me, that would be a HUGE slap in the fact to someone who has worked hard for that degree, because they are entitled to use that title.
A nurse's education is below an NP/PAs which is below an MD/DO's. It has no implications for how they do their job, or what impact they have with the patients. Just that the education is less and the jobs, to some extent, are different...A masters degree with lipstick.
First off, I know PA's who just have a CERTIFICATE from a COMMUNITY COLLEGE. So, a nurse with a BSN has more education than a lot of PA's out there!
Also, referring to a DNP degree as a "Master's degree with lipstick," is flat out SEXIST!
The education does not have to be the same. We are not the same. We are nurses. We care for patients in a different manner. NPs are trained to be primary care providers. Do you think they need 8 years of med school to diagnose an ear infection? A sprained ankle or pneumonia? I certainly don't I could have done this years ago before going to get my masters. NPs are not arguing they are as knowledgable as MDs with regard to medicine. They do think they can adequately provide primary care and research has shown they are as capable as physicians in this regard.
BTW --- DR stands for doctorate. Something physicians stole for themselves decades ago. In any other field, no one would question calling someone DR if they EARNED a doctorate. Yet somehow this is quite threatening to physicians. And while I am at it, there is nothing "mid-level' about an NP who has earned that title. It is another insulting title given to nurses by arrogant physicians.
Right... NPs are nurses. But they are trying to practice medicine. That they are nurses does not excuse them from having the proper education. It also does not make them a separate entity when they are trying to practice medicine so that they can be called doctor. In a clinical setting only the people who have the highest education in a given field should call themselves doctor. In this case, I would be ok with pharmacists, dentists and maybe even physical therapists calling themselves doctor provided they only deal with things related to their expertise. However, "advanced nursing" is medicine under a different name. Unlike the dentist who has expertise in the mouth/teeth or the pharmacist who has expertise on pharmacokindetics/dynamics, DNPs do not bring an expertise in a different area of medicine to the table. Instead, the physician has the expertise. DNPs bring less training in medicine than the physician does. It is just under the guise of a name and so people want to act like it is the terminal degree of the field. The terminal degree of the field of medicine is an MD/DO.
As to the research- actually the research has shown nothing... Bring out the studies if you wish and I will show you the biases and method flaws so big you could drive a truck through them. The studies thus prove nothing because they are so poorly done. When studies are done with complex patients that are properly blinded, not done by people who have such an interest in one side or the other (Mary Mundinger), and have proper outcome measures rather than using satisfaction or screening tests as the metric I will eat my words. I'm not going to fight you that with non-complex patients NPs provide similar care. I could design a study where you used 4th year medical students, NPs and MD attendings and I bet we would not find a statistically significant difference between the care of NPs, 4th years or attendings because there are specific guidelines to follow.
So you say...I am guessing you are a med student disguised as an NP defending turf for when you graduate. I also expect I have been a nurse longer than you have been on this earth. Again. I will stand behind my statement that you don't need 8 years of med school in order to treat an ear infection. As for the research --do your own. I have looked at it and I have taken research courses in an outstanding program and I think I can very well determine good from bad research on my own... thank you very much. AND being an MD doesn't assume your research is BETTER...
And BTW we can provide quality care for much less. Something to think about in this day and age of cost containment. Since physicians wanted only to go into specialty areas and not provide primary care (could this be a money issue?), NPs stepped up to the plate. And done so very well.
Also, referring to a DNP degree as a "Master's degree with lipstick," is flat out SEXIST!
I had to laugh at this... I mean really? You realize I was using lipstick because it is take off from the phrase "putting lipstick on a pig"
If you prefer we could use the term "masters degree with a toupee." I am not trying to offend the men in the audience though... How about we use the term "masters degree with an androgenous and superficial augmentation to make it appear superior to the reality?"
Does that work for everyone?
So again, the DNP is not a doctorate at all. If you compare the coursework it is basically the same thing as the normal masters level NP. The DNP really is just a masters degree with an androgenous and superficial augmentation to make it appear superior to the reality.
So you say...I am guessing you are a med student disguised as an NP defending turf for when you graduate. I also expect I have been a nurse longer than you have been on this earth. Again. I will stand behind my statement that you don't need 8 years of med school in order to treat an ear infection. As for the research --do your own. I have looked at it and I have taken research courses in an outstanding program and I think I can very well determine good from bad research on my own... thank you very much. AND being an MD doesn't assume your research is BETTER...
And BTW we can provide quality care for much less. Something to think about in this day and age of cost containment. Since physicians wanted only to go into specialty areas and not provide primary care (could this be a money issue?), NPs stepped up to the plate. And done so very well.
I will agree that much of primary care an NP can do, and do well. You are right, you do not need 8 years of training to treat an ear infection. There is a good amount of primary care though, that an NP does not have the training for.
If you want to post any study you think is solid, I will go ahead and tear it down for you. I will show how the biases and the method flaws are so severe that it is a completely invalid study.
PICUNP - Are you really a NP or a PA?? I'm starting to have doubts about your credibility...
Yes, I am a currrent practicing NP at a large children's hospital in TX. Why the doubts? Is it because I espouse the shortcomings of the NP education? Anyone with the ability to read can compare the two educations and see that they are not even close. THe use of the title is ridiculous! Just keep beating the dead horse!
I had to laugh at this... I mean really? You realize I was using lipstick because it is take off from the phrase "putting lipstick on a pig"
If you prefer we could use the term "masters degree with a toupee." I am not trying to offend the men in the audience though... How about we use the term "masters degree with an androgenous and superficial augmentation to make it appear superior to the reality?"
Does that work for everyone?
So again, the DNP is not a doctorate at all. If you compare the coursework it is basically the same thing as the normal masters level NP. The DNP really is just a masters degree with an androgenous and superficial augmentation to make it appear superior to the reality.
I am now convinced, PICUPNP, wowza and dgenthist are one in the same (?medical student). Not split personality mind you, as he gives himself kudos for his other posts. He also has a dictionary at his side to make sure we midlevels all know what a great vocabulary all three of them can use. Maybe we, the lowly "midlevel NP" can help out and dx his disorder?
ps- my actual title is Pediatric Critical Care NP and educated at U. Penn. Have a nice day!
Please PM me with your true identity. I have friends at the large children's hospitals and I'll have them check on this b/c I don't believe you. Are you working at Texas Children's Hospital?
I am now convinced, PICUPNP, wowza and dgenthist are one in the same (?medical student). Not split personality mind you, as he gives himself kudos for his other posts. He also has a dictionary at his side to make sure we midlevels all know what a great vocabulary all three of them can use. Maybe we, the lowly "midlevel NP" can help out and dx his disorder?
I had to laugh at this... I mean really? You realize I was using lipstick because it is take off from the phrase "putting lipstick on a pig"
If you prefer we could use the term "masters degree with a toupee." I am not trying to offend the men in the audience though... How about we use the term "masters degree with an androgenous and superficial augmentation to make it appear superior to the reality?"
Does that work for everyone?
So again, the DNP is not a doctorate at all. If you compare the coursework it is basically the same thing as the normal masters level NP. The DNP really is just a masters degree with an androgenous and superficial augmentation to make it appear superior to the reality.
Since you didn't mention it in this post, do you agree that a PA with a certificate from a community college has less formal education as a RN with a BSN?
I'm willing to bet money that you're in medical school and it just KILLS you to think that you're going to have to compete with a DNP when you get out. It must really upset you that patients may actually prefer the DNP over YOU, the BIG IMPORTANT DOCTOR WITH MD AFTER THEIR NAME! Get over it, because health care is changing and nurse practitioners are going to play a bigger role than ever before! So, you might want to stay OUT of primary care, our arena, and go into a specialty!
ANPFNPGNP
685 Posts
First off, I know PA's who just have a CERTIFICATE from a COMMUNITY COLLEGE. So, a nurse with a BSN has more education than a lot of PA's out there!
Also, referring to a DNP degree as a "Master's degree with lipstick," is flat out SEXIST!