Curious...using the title "Doctor" for a DNP...

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caldje

177 Posts

Im sorry. Im not an NP and don't support confusing patients. BUT, its completely unfair to say they "don't know what they dont know."

I have never seen an NP, and especially never seen an RN get 'over their head' without asking for help. That behavior has been the solitary realm of physicians and medical residents.

IIt seems to me that PhDs, PharmDs, JDs, whatever the doctoral education, certainly have the word "doctor" before their names, but they are still referred to as professor, pharmacist, lawyer, etc. Their titles say "doctor" but the role is whatever.

When one is referring to one's "doctor," it is usually pretty clear s/he is not referring to her/his pharmacist or attorney or NP but to physician. Surely the PharmD can be introduced with proper credentials, ie "This is Dr. Smith, pharmacist."

In nursing school, one wouldn't say "class is about to start, here comes the doctor" but certainly would say, "here comes Dr. Smith" (obviously the professor).

Why can't we all use the titles we've earned, and state our roles? Including MDs, as in "I'm Dr. Smith, physician"?

In my experience, this generally happens. A hospital is a confusing place and patients need to know with whom they are talking and why that person is there to see them. I introduce myself as "I'm Dr. Coastalslacker, one of the bone-doctors, or, one of the orthopedic surgery residents". Most residents and attendings doing consults will say, "I'm Dr. So-and-so. I'm an endocrinologist, asked to see you by Dr So and so regarding your diabetes." Just going in and saying "I'm Dr. Blah" is insufficient.

This thread was linked from SDN and I've only read bits and pieces of it. I figure you can call yourself whatever you want as long as you are clear about why you are there to see a patient. I think the Dr. title is just a big ego pump for most people. I'd rather not use it, but I must admit patients do respond to it. That said, "Dr." in most peoples minds means medical doctor. If you say, I'm Dr. Jones, a doctor nurse practioner, you are going to confuse the heck out of alot of people. While "educating people" about DNP's might help, there are alot of people who will just give you *** looks.

ANPFNPGNP

685 Posts

Unless you happen to live in Oklahoma. Our state physicians ramrodded through a law that prevents us from doing that. The only exceptions include chiropractor, dentist, optometrist and podiatrist...

Please, tell me more about this. Do they just not want NP's to use that title or anyone in the health care field, other than the professions you mentioned? I used to live in Oklahoma and I remember it being very "anti" NP, so this doesn't surprise me.

zoroaster

1 Post

For a friendly debate topic.....

I remembered reading an old post awhile ago where an NP (who got her DNP) was told by Human Resources that she couldn\'t use the title "Doctor" at the hospital, because it would mislead the patients.

I am wondering if anyone has seen or heard anything similar where they work (you personally or someone else).

If hospitals are "all about introductions", I see nothing wrong with telling a patient, "Hi, I\'m Dr. Smith, I\'m a Nurse Practioner"...I see no difference between that and saying, "Hi, I\'m Dr. Jones and I\'m your Cardiologist".

To me, that would be a HUGE slap in the fact to someone who has worked hard for that degree, because they are entitled to use that title.

What ya\'ll think?

I think it is slightly disingenuous in a hospital setting to address yourself as doctor. Yes ,you technically are a doctor, but the public perception in a hospital is a doctor is an MD or DO. If an RN had an EdD should he or she also be allowed to introduce themselves as doctor? I think the ABA model should be observed and the title doctor should be reserved for MDs in a hospital or health care setting setting. I think it is less confusing to the patient. Does it make a functional difference if an NP is an MSN or DNS? If it does not... why other than ego do you need to use the title?

wannabesedated

77 Posts

Specializes in NICU.
I think it is slightly disingenuous in a hospital setting to address yourself as doctor. Yes ,you technically are a doctor, but the public perception in a hospital is a doctor is an MD or DO. If an RN had an EdD should he or she also be allowed to introduce themselves as doctor? I think the ABA model should be observed and the title doctor should be reserved for MDs in a hospital or health care setting setting. I think it is less confusing to the patient. Does it make a functional difference if an NP is an MSN or DNS? If it does not... why other than ego do you need to use the title?

Why other than ego does a physician feel they should be the only profession to use the title "Doctor", when other health care professionals have also earned a doctorate?

According to the Centre for Nursing Advocacy:

Medicine is a vital field, but some feel that placing it far above other equally important health professions obstructs patient care, health care reform, and of course the other professions. Many feel that this is an important factor in the nursing shortage.

In particular, if parents and teachers do not realize that nurses can earn Ph.D.'s/DNP's in nursing and contribute at the doctoral level, it is less likely that they will encourage their best and brightest students to enter the field.

We urge everyone not to use the term "doctor" when "physician" is meant. In addition, if any health care worker is to be honored with the special title "Doctor" (as in "Dr. Smith"), we recommend that the title be used for all health care workers with doctorates, including nurses.

Of course, as everyone mentioned above it is important not to misrepresent by clearly stating "I am Dr. Smith, a nurse practitioner". But shouldn't it go both ways? "I am Dr. Smith, a physician." Just my :twocents:

PhilGN

61 Posts

I think it is slightly disingenuous in a hospital setting to address yourself as doctor. Yes ,you technically are a doctor, but the public perception in a hospital is a doctor is an MD or DO. If an RN had an EdD should he or she also be allowed to introduce themselves as doctor? I think the ABA model should be observed and the title doctor should be reserved for MDs in a hospital or health care setting setting. I think it is less confusing to the patient. Does it make a functional difference if an NP is an MSN or DNS? If it does not... why other than ego do you need to use the title?
What ABA model? You mean that lawyers obtain JDs, but don't go by the term doctor? Maybe we should ask physicians to go by that model. Both are first professional degrees. The National Science Foundation has even gone so far as to say MDs aren't equivalent to PhDs. So maybe physicians should only go by doctor if they obtain a PhD or the DMSc (Doctor of Medical Science) degree that the NSF says is equivalent to a PhD. In the eyes of the NSF, a nurse with a PhD, EdD, or DNSc (Doctorate in Nursing Science) has better reason for using the term doctor than a physician with an MD.

llg, PhD, RN

13,469 Posts

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
What ABA model? You mean that lawyers obtain JDs, but don't go by the term doctor? Maybe we should ask physicians to go by that model. Both are first professional degrees. The National Science Foundation has even gone so far as to say MDs aren't equivalent to PhDs. So maybe physicians should only go by doctor if they obtain a PhD or the DMSc (Doctor of Medical Science) degree that the NSF says is equivalent to a PhD. In the eyes of the NSF, a nurse with a PhD, EdD, or DNSc (Doctorate in Nursing Science) has better reason for using the term doctor than a physician with an MD.

Thank you. :yeah:

llg, PhD, RN -- and my 3 academic degrees (BSN, MSN, PhD) are all from highly respected universities, where I received more than 1 merit-based scholarship for which I competed against pre-med and medical students. I also have 30 years of professional nursing experience. I HATE it when those young med students and residents still wet behind the years try to "lord it over me" with their "I am a true doctor and you are not" attitude. They are so childish about it.

amzyRN

1,142 Posts

Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.

Is it also true that physicians "don't know what they don't know". I think that is true in a lot of cases, not just nurses. How much do physicians know about nursing, or philosophy, or whatever? People can try to teach one another, in a good natured relationship, where the goal is to help and heal. My understanding of the role of the physician is a scientist of the diagnosis and treatment of disease and also a humanitarian that wants to alleviate human suffering. The role does not include being an "overseer" that barks out orders and insults. I know that there are those who do the latter, but that needs to be corrected. Also, what is the role of the NP or DNP with the physician?

As a new MD I am terrified to be called doctor. The term is a public trust, contributed to over decades by the men and women who came before me, and when you use the term you draw on that trust...

... *I*, as some one with the degree, doesn't like being called doctor. It is not people of my knowledge and eduction that gave the term worth.

...their own term will carry all the cache they need. But that is not what some would want. They, as a group, want to seize the respect associated with the term without earning it as a profession.

As someone with a PhD in physics who stumbled upon this site, I find the irony of this post overwhelming. Historically, it was physicians who borrowed the term "Doctor" from the academics in order to gain respect from the public. To turn around and accuse others of this either points to historical ignorance or just plain arrogance.

AMA 303 is a poke in the eye.

PhilGN

61 Posts

AMA 303 is a poke in the eye.

I hadn't heard about this before and had to google it. It looks like the APA is up in arms over this too, has anyone else heard more about it?

So much depends upon context.

Within the confines of a hospital or exam room, if someone in scrubs or a white coat or a suit introduces him or herself as Dr. So and So, the assumption will probably be that the person is a medical doctor who has attended medical school.

If you introduce yourself as Dr. So and So, Nurse Practioner, some patients may get it, others may not. Context. Considering the patient's potential state, nervous, vulnerable, afraid -- what will they hear when you introduce yourself that way? The operative word is "doctor," not nurse practioner. If you're sitting naked under a gown on an exam table and a man or woman in white comes in and introduces him/herself as Dr. So and So, Economist -- what will your reaction be? Will you even hear the word "Economist?" If you do, what will all this mean to you?

If they get it, how will you know? If they don't, how will you know? Will the medical professional explain the context of the introduction? If the patient doesn't ask for an explanation, will the medical professional infer that the patient understands?

Much of this discussion in this thread seems to focus on the medical professionals, their pride in getting that degree, status within the profession, etc. -- which I'm not saying isn't important. You should be proud of your accomplishments. But the focus should be on the patient and the context of the communication. Meaning exists within a context.

amzyRN

1,142 Posts

Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.

What should the patient assume of the physician "doctor" versus the nurse practitioner "doctor" ?

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