Crusading for Better Mental Health Care: Mental Health Education in Schools

wish_me_luck, BSN, RN · Jan 2, 2013

What about you all that are school nurses...do you think it would be a benefit? Do you see a need?

InfirmiereJolie · Jan 2, 2013

A) The schools are already overloaded and overwhelmed by all the non-academic content that has been added to their mandate over the years.
B) I've been in child/adolescent psych for nearly 20 years, and, IMO, we have far too many kids in "treatment" that don't need to be already. The last thing we need is some school program drumming up more business for the child psych medication "educational-medical complex." Believe me, schools are doing a great job of pushing kids into treatment without any help from those outside the system.
C) The idea about the special group/class for kids on psych drugs would never fly because it would identify and stigmatize kids who are on psych meds, information which is private/protected and no one else's business (not that there are that many kids in school any more who aren't on psych meds ...)
D) I agree with the earlier comments about targeting poor neighborhoods and schools. I've observed for many years in the the US (and so have many of my psych provider colleagues) that, if you're poor (and have some kind of problem), you're "crazy" and need to be coerced/forced into treatment; if you're affluent (and have the same problems, or worse), you're just "eccentric," and are free to go about your business and cause as much damage to yourself, others, and society as you like.

My mother had some college in psych/child dev at a uc and she is one of the largest critics.

She helped keep me away from it and removed me from the situation. I obviously told her about it.

I think all of you missed my point. There is nothing I want with drugs. What I am suggesting is education. Telling children about it, generally. For example:
BPD: Tx is talk therapy/DBT
schizophrenia: antipsychotics
and on and on (Bipolar: mood stabilizers/antidepressants). That's it--not anything in depth on meds. I am not saying someone should go and assess kids at all. I am saying educate them and if little John or little Jane comes to their parent, school nurse, etc. and says "hey, I don't feel right mentally". Then, you can get a more accurate assessment and look at the family dynamics. If you are properly doing these things, it's fairly easy to figure out whether it's situational (i.e. divorce, death, etc.) or someone is mentally ill. There is no assessing in educating. However, I do think all kids K-12 need to learn coping skills. That is something everyone needs to learn.
I actually think the number of true mentally ill (as in solely genetically mentally ill vs situational circumstances) is very low. We, as a society, do not have coping skills, we don't know how to communicate anymore, we tend to work long hours, more stress and expectations, etc., yet be composed and act like everything is peachy.
Maybe I am not using the correct terminology for what I am suggesting. But, it has nothing to do with drugging kids nor does it have anything to do with assessing them in anyway. It's more educating them and correcting any misinformation that is out there and let them know that if they aren't feeling right or something is amiss, there's help. They don't have to keep it to themselves or deal with it alone.
PS I was one of those kids who they said needed ritalin. My mom said no, I am still hyper as all get out, but it's fine. It's me. Some kids grow out of it, some people it's their personality and I am not harming anyone with my hyperness.
Also, Inf, I am not from a low income family (middle class) and I have mental illness or was "tagged" as having mental illness. Maybe it's just where you are.

They already have these talks on these topics about what each "disorder" is. After the questions they would have lecturers come in to discuss the various "illnesses" and which ones a person could have (which ones they probably had based on answers). They tell you to "answer honestly" during the questioning, of course. I knew what all the vague questions meant and which one's would label me with a disorder if I answered them a certain way because I already knew what all of the "disorders" were already (others probably did not/may have not, they were children after all, this was middle school). Everyone was angry about it because they were really targeting ALL of them because of 1)they were mostly poor and so were their parents, 2) there was "juvenile delinquency" at the school which would be good/easy to label as "illnesses" and drug them up, ect to control it... It just made them more angry, frustrated, and act out even more/hate being there/have bad side effects. It spread to others and they frequently talked about it all, even joining groups making it a "hit" ("You have a problem??? I have one too!!!" "What drugs are you on?!")... then there were the emos - short for emotional - (making it "cool" to be suicidal).

Of course, I know what "hyper" means. It was another term used during that time because ADHD became an "epidemic" ... suddenly "everyone" had it!

You may not be low income then, but I'm guessing this happened at a public school which had some low income children... I went to private school, charter/private schools, and online schools too (in two dif. states, dif areas) and they never had any of these programs or mention any of this. A couple of them had some children who were taken out of the public school who were "problematic" and placed there by their parents to get them out of the environment. They seemed to improve to me, become significantly happier and have better grades, and definitely didn't get worse. I think they appreciated being finally looked at as normal ("Wow, they're not labeling me, they're actually listening to me?!"). It's sad to tell someone they're normal and they to give you a surprised look. It's a calming effect.

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally am not talking about herding kids into doctors' offices and putting them on medications to make them conform to a school's idea of "normal".
Years ago, when my now-24-year-old was in elementary school, there was more than one school official who told me I needed to get him on Ritalin to calm him down. He wasn't hyperactive, but he had a mouth on him and he was often noisy, angry, whiny, nervous, and fidgety. I steadfastly refused to do so, and took him to counseling for his anger issues and general lousy attitude toward life.
Fast-forward 15 years, and that "hyperactive" and "disruptive" fourth-grader is now an honorably discharged U.S. Army veteran who still has trouble controlling his emotions, but is kind and loving. And I find it almost amusing that the teachers and school counselors who 'diagnosed' him way back when were 100% wrong: he doesn't have ADHD, he has bipolar disorder, a condition for which Ritalin could have had catastrophic results. Thank God I stuck to my guns and refused to have him medicated for something I knew he didn't have (although nobody knew then that he and I both were suffering from BP).
No, what I want to see is a turning away from stigmatizing mental illness the way our society still does, and while it's too late for our generation, it isn't for today's school-age children. JMHO.

How about this... I was put into this one public school in 3rd/2nd grade and they said I need to "stay back a year" and get placed into 2nd instead. Then I was put into "reading" classes for children who needed "extra help...." (i.e., with special children). I said forget you, you are wrong, I make my own choices. This is a fantasy. Year later I go to a charter school (with nicer environment) and start getting A's, B's... soon reading entire novels in one day... we're talking 700-1000 page books. Score 110th percentile on some tests. 6th grade I returned to that same school and received the presidential award in excellence, only 3 got it. What a joke. 7th grade I'm taking college classes (only 2 and in computer - mico. office/web design, but w/e, still A's)... but now in "that" school I'm talking about... Almost get labeled with something, get angry and frustrated with the place like everyone else, yelling, and started to ect but too smart to get caught in the web (and parent wouldn't let it happen, either, took me out)... then yada yada yada I skip grade, go to CA, start anew in a better place, and eventually get to college with 4.0 (not inflated either, only 8 graduated with it and there were thousands grad last yr at college)... wow they couldn't have been more wrong.

Fact or fiction

wish_me_luck, BSN, RN · Jan 2, 2013

Inf, again maybe TX is doing a better job than where I live. But, I am telling you, we (where I live) did not get any sort of education on what each disorder is. We did not get any coping skills or anything. We did not get assessed for anything.

The ADHD/hyperness thing did not, repeat did not, come from a professional--it was from the school. ADHD was "the thing" at the time and because I was hyper, they assumed I had ADHD. You are right, sometimes, they jump the gun. They were going to put me in the "slow class"/ special education and on Ritalin. Also, when this ADHD thing occurred I did not live in the same state as I live in now.

I will be very brutally honest when I say this and I am not trying to be mean or accuse, just my experience...the only time I was ever assessed for any sort of mental health issue via a questionnaire was when I was on a psych unit. I don't know for sure about your past or any psych evaluations you may have had. But, that's my experience. It was called an MMPI and I was an adolescent, so it was the form for adolescents. I was on a psych unit though. Where were you when you took this questionnaire? If you did not take one, no offense, you have no dog in this race. You obvious are speaking on something you do not experience in.

I, too, made A's and B's (some C's in an occasional class), was involved in activities, etc., graduated from college (3.4/4.0; but, after 7 years with some tough courses--Organic Chem, Physics, upper math, etc., I think it's good. I rocked my nursing classes)...but, all that said, I am a person and I do have emotions. I do not think I am anywhere as bad as they (the Boards, etc.) think I am. But, I did binge drink until I passed out (sometimes stopped breathing) and I am okay with seeing a therapist. I wish I didn't have to spend money on drug screens and could go shopping instead or save it for something nice, but it is what it is.

Anyway, that is just my experience. So, if you have taken an MMPI like questionnaire, where was it taken?

I don't think teaching mental health is a norm or national thing. That may be something done in TX, but I can tell you, we did not get that.

pookyknight · Jan 2, 2013

I'm in total agreement. This would be a great place for retired nurses to get involved. As a nurse who suffers from BiPolar myself, I can say that this may very well have saved me a great deal of heart ache during my teen years and young adult life.

wish_me_luck, BSN, RN · Jan 2, 2013

You know, it would be cool to run something through th medical reserve corps. That's throughout the country, they do take non-healthcare personnel but most is health care related, it's volunteer...what do you think? I am going to see what can be done...it won't be until after approval to work and I think I would want to get the idea of what they do and everything before springing it on them. But, it would be pretty awesome. I am just letting my thoughts run wild...don't mind me.

InfirmiereJolie · Jan 2, 2013

It wasn't in TX, it was in an Arizona middle school, I live in California now and have for many years now, in college now. If that is from my profile or something I just put that in there as you can put any place in there.

I think it was in my history class. The teacher had a rep for being creepy. I know his face (older, white male), but I think they gave it out in more than one class than that. I remember them also saying that parents can choose to not have their children be tested (sign off on it), but otherwise everyone received the questionnaire. It happened in more than one class, I think they said it was "new" or some test. We were the lab rats.

I'm just saying there are many programs about this already and for a long time (or short time for some people here) in schools. They say it everywhere (what is on the list in first post) and it is a huge business.

If anything, there should be a self-empowerment strategy (i.e., you "can" do it, you "are" intelligent, you "are" strong, you "are" important, you "are" normal and "can" achieve what you want), with more upward-bound type programs, and more funding for struggling (public) schools. People shouldn't be segregated by intelligence/non-intelligence or personality. Each individual is important... (but try changing the system... very difficult). (I'm guessing there could be something like this... somewhere.. already being implemented, I just don't know where, maybe California, as Upward Bound is certainly here and other helpful "you can do it" programs)

Inf, again maybe TX is doing a better job than where I live. But, I am telling you, we (where I live) did not get any sort of education on what each disorder is. We did not get any coping skills or anything. We did not get assessed for anything.
The ADHD/hyperness thing did not, repeat did not, come from a professional--it was from the school. ADHD was "the thing" at the time and because I was hyper, they assumed I had ADHD. You are right, sometimes, they jump the gun. They were going to put me in the "slow class"/ special education and on Ritalin. Also, when this ADHD thing occurred I did not live in the same state as I live in now.
I will be very brutally honest when I say this and I am not trying to be mean or accuse, just my experience...the only time I was ever assessed for any sort of mental health issue via a questionnaire was when I was on a psych unit. I don't know for sure about your past or any psych evaluations you may have had. But, that's my experience. It was called an MMPI and I was an adolescent, so it was the form for adolescents. I was on a psych unit though. Where were you when you took this questionnaire? If you did not take one, no offense, you have no dog in this race. You obvious are speaking on something you do not experience in.
I, too, made A's and B's (some C's in an occasional class), was involved in activities, etc., graduated from college (3.4/4.0; but, after 7 years with some tough courses--Organic Chem, Physics, upper math, etc., I think it's good. I rocked my nursing classes)...but, all that said, I am a person and I do have emotions. I do not think I am anywhere as bad as they (the Boards, etc.) think I am. But, I did binge drink until I passed out (sometimes stopped breathing) and I am okay with seeing a therapist. I wish I didn't have to spend money on drug screens and could go shopping instead or save it for something nice, but it is what it is.
Anyway, that is just my experience. So, if you have taken an MMPI like questionnaire, where was it taken?
I don't think teaching mental health is a norm or national thing. That may be something done in TX, but I can tell you, we did not get that.

wish_me_luck, BSN, RN · Jan 3, 2013

Okay. Virginia hasn't had any optional questionnaires, that I know of. I am not talking about assessing people anyway. I am not talking creepy history professors or anything. Just health care providers/nurses providing factual information on mental health.

I don't know of any programs in existence here, if you find one in Virginia, please let me know. I know I reference my own state a lot. People who live in other states and have these programs that Inf is talking about, then I guess they won't need anything. As long as there is something that exists that promotes healthy habits regarding mental health and educates the younger population with factual information...

I do know Upward Bound exists. That has nothing to do with mental health.

I not exactly sure where you are getting the "low income" thing from. I never suggested targeting lower income people. We have people of all income classes in our public schools and private schools. If allowed, I would love to educate private schools as well. This isn't an income issue, this is a society issue.

If you personally have no interest in this sort of thing, you don't have to support it. I am very thankful for the kind and supportive words from others. I do thank you for your responses though.

InfirmiereJolie · Jan 3, 2013

No, I do not support what was posted in the first post as I have already seen it implemented and it having WORSE effects, not better effects (making more "ill" people and LESS progress or betterment). I do not understand how people can think making others feel subservient (and permanently thinking negatively about themselves and others) is beneficial. Since it's a public forum I write what I want where I want to...

To me, mental health is knowing one is in complete control over themselves, that there are numerous opportunities out there, and seeing the good in themselves and others, i.e., the positive, not the negative. To know that they can take care of themselves and if need be, others too. Leadership, success, independence, ambition, confidence. These are the words which should be encouraged in others and in schools.

Empower them, don't defeat them.

wish_me_luck, BSN, RN · Jan 3, 2013

You do have that right, you are correct. But, when I had low self esteem, felt awful, drank, etc., I needed help. I tried everything to make myself better, including the positive/good in yourself thing--I tried reiki, alternative methods, etc. It was nice short term. That was it.

After I ended up in the ER after my suicide attempt, I remember the police officer questioning me if there was someone threatening me/attempting to hurt or kill me (my suicide attempt looked like attempted homicide as opposed to suicide, so they thought there was someone trying to hurt/kill me) and me being the honest person I am, told the officer/sheriff the truth. I told him no one did this to me, I did it to myself--it was a suicide attempt and I needed help. As out of it/intoxicated as I was, I still remember that feeling I had that night. I actually keep the "evidence bags" from that incident as a reminder (the police collected evidence like it was an attempted homicide and gave me the stuff back in the bags when I was discharged from the hospital.)

I do reflect on my situation and as irritating as it is and as much as I hate the drug screens (have I mentioned that I hate them? ), I don't know if I would have quit drinking if I wasn't in HPMP--maybe, maybe not...I think about the cost of UDS and then, I think of the alternative...yes, I could get a lot of nice stuff with the money or save it. But, the truth is, I probably would have gotten drunk again and ended up in the hospital again. HPMP is much cheaper than ICU/hospital bills. I am grateful for the chance the BON gave me.

I want to show people that you can have a successful life after a mental health dx. Right now, there is still a stigma (believe me, I have been through the discrimination) and fear. Fear of people with mental illness and fear from people who don't feel right and they are afraid their life is over, so to speak, after a mental health dx. I want to show people with mental illness that you can have a successful career (including in a healthcare profession) and be a productive member of society even with mental illness. I want to be a person that changes the perception of people without mental illness. And most importantly, I want to be a person that someone who is not feeling so great mentally can approach and receive a helping hand or a shoulder to cry on.

We (people with mental illness) didn't create this stigma.

Inf, I wish you could feel what I felt the day I received the initial denial from the BOP regarding my pharmacy tech license. Black and white, I will tell you the exact wording/response I received: "According to statute 54.1-3316 of the Code of Virginia (1950), as amended, the Board may deny an application if it finds that the applicant has violated statute 54.1-3316(3) and is not able to practice as a pharmacy technician due to mental illness. According to information you provided in your application, grounds may exist to deny your application for registration...With the documentation you have provided, I am not able to approve your application." I got it overturned because I stuck up for myself. It's a sad day when you are in violation of the law for mental illness. I have an encumbered license (restricted to VA) because of BPD/alcohol abuse. TN denied me authorization because they don't grant privileges to people with encumbered licenses.

I wasn't flamboyant about my mental illness before this licensing/Board stuff. But, they asked and I answered honestly. I just decided that when my personal information was put out there for everyone to see and going through denials that I would make the best of the situation. If the Boards didn't ask, they didn't post it online, they didn't deny me, etc. I wouldn't have said anything. It wouldn't have been a big deal.

My personal experience with mental health issues drives me. For me, it wasn't just be happy. It wasn't that easy. I would imagine it's the same for others. I am not suggesting forcing anything on anyone, just offering education/information.

wish_me_luck, BSN, RN · Jan 17, 2013

If you are in VA, I posted a similar post to this one in that section. I want to work on something. We need to figure out what exists and where first. It will be slow, but maybe something can be planned and we can get support.

Crusading for Better Mental Health Care: Mental Health Education in Schools

Should mental health education be taught in schools?