CRNA's and pain mgt techniques/pain clinics

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Specializes in Neuro ICU, Cardiothoracic ICU.

My goal is to focus on outpatient pain mgt as a CRNA after finishing school and I'd like to attend a school that teaches intensively the pain mgt techniques that are common in an outpatient chronic pain clinic. IS anyone doing this now as a CRNA? I've been reading some anesthiologist forums and find that many have expressed hostility :angryfireto CRNA's who want to learn such procedures. It sounds like most schools don't put an emphasis on this aspect of anesthesia and I'd really like to know what it takes to get this kind of training. On this anesthesia forum I referred to there was mention of CRNA's who went to anesthesiologist conferences and signed up as an MD (this sounds fraudulent to me:nono:) to get in and learn the techniques. What options are out there and how tightly controlled is the education for pain management. Is there any state legislation restricting this kind of practice? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

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My goal is to focus on outpatient pain mgt as a CRNA after finishing school and I'd like to attend a school that teaches intensively the pain mgt techniques that are common in an outpatient chronic pain clinic. IS anyone doing this now as a CRNA? I've been reading some anesthiologist forums and find that many have expressed hostility :angryfireto CRNA's who want to learn such procedures. It sounds like most schools don't put an emphasis on this aspect of anesthesia and I'd really like to know what it takes to get this kind of training. On this anesthesia forum I referred to there was mention of CRNA's who went to anesthesiologist conferences and signed up as an MD (this sounds fraudulent to me:nono:) to get in and learn the techniques. What options are out there and how tightly controlled is the education for pain management. Is there any state legislation restricting this kind of practice? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Pain management procedures cross the line to the practice of medicine. It's only being done in a few states, and Louisiana CRNA's lost their fight recently to do them.
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Sleepy....

I encourage your pursuits in pain management.

Here is a a group of CRNAs who run a Pain management seminar group who, I'm sure, would help you out if you contact them.

NAPES: Nurse Anesthesiology Pain Education Seminars

http://www.napeseminar.com/index.html

good luck.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Pain management procedures cross the line to the practice of medicine. .........

Once again, that's the standard A$A propaganda. 'CRNAs must not do pain, must not do regional, must not do lines' -- all of which wishes to ignore anesthesia as it is practiced by CRNAs in America every day.

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Once again, that's the standard A$A propaganda. 'CRNAs must not do pain, must not do regional, must not do lines' -- all of which wishes to ignore anesthesia as it is practiced by CRNAs in America every day.

Regional anesthesia and invasive lines are different than a therapeutic block for chronic pain.

I know AA's and CRNA's that do regionals and lines every day. It's largely practice-dependent as to who allows what. Some do, some don't - that includes practices that are MD/CRNA only. I don't know of any legal prohibitions on those procedures when done as part of an anesthetic or in a critical care setting.

That's very different than performing procedures that physicians spend a year or more in fellowship (on top of med school and standard residency) to learn. Do these CRNA's spend a year or more in post graduate training learning how to do this? Or do they attend a weekend or week-long course by NAPES or some other kind of seminar? Do their malpractice carriers know that they are performing these procedures that are traditionally considered the practice of medicine?

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Specializes in Neuro ICU, Cardiothoracic ICU.
Sleepy....

I encourage your pursuits in pain management.

Here is a a group of CRNAs who run a Pain management seminar group who, I'm sure, would help you out if you contact them.

NAPES: Nurse Anesthesiology Pain Education Seminars

http://www.napeseminar.com/index.html

good luck.

It sounds like there are a lot of mixed views on the subject. I tried the URL you typed in a few times and couldn't get it to work. Has it changed or did you miss a letter or am I doing something wrong (most likely). Thanks for the input and help. It was mentioned that only a few states are allowing pain mgt...anyone know which states those happen to be...say, maybe Oregon or Washington?

Thanks again!

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
.......It was mentioned that only a few states are allowing pain mgt...

More A$A disinformation.

Consult aana.com with your questions to avoid the A$A obfuscation found on this BB.

d

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Specializes in Neuro ICU, Cardiothoracic ICU.

Thanks Skipaway for the corrected URL. Interesting web site. Thanks to everyone else for the input. It sounds like a feasible goal to end up in pain mgt as a CRNA so I'll have to do some research on the schools that put higher emphasis on these techniques and line placement. Any further comments would be much appreciated.

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Specializes in Pain Management.

Originally I wanted to go into pain management in order to integrate my acupuncture background with either a FNP or CRNA degree. After speaking with numerous types of providers and different schools, I came to the conclusion that the best way to go into pain management is to become a doctor.

At most of the CRNA schools I talked to, pain management was more of an after-thought and there was little focus on the field. Physicians, on the other hand, go through an anesthesiology [4 years] or PMR [3 years?] residency, then a year of fellowship.

In addition to all of the other differences, you are looking at a deficit of thousands of cases when comparing a CRNA in pain management versus a pain fellow.

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Originally I wanted to go into pain management in order to integrate my acupuncture background with either a FNP or CRNA degree. After speaking with numerous types of providers and different schools, I came to the conclusion that the best way to go into pain management is to become a doctor.

At most of the CRNA schools I talked to, pain management was more of an after-thought and there was little focus on the field. Physicians, on the other hand, go through an anesthesiology [4 years] or PMR [3 years?] residency, then a year of fellowship.

In addition to all of the other differences, you are looking at a deficit of thousands of cases when comparing a CRNA in pain management versus a pain fellow.

I suggest you update your knowledge of how aggressive CRNA schhols, at least the ones I am in contact with, are about the pursuit of training in pain management. More and more fluro labs along with practice are popping up to train CRNAs to perform pain management.

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Specializes in Pain Management.
I suggest you update your knowledge of how aggressive CRNA schhols, at least the ones I am in contact with, are about the pursuit of training in pain management. More and more fluro labs along with practice are popping up to train CRNAs to perform pain management.

Wow. So increasing the number of pain management cases from 5 to 15 really puts the CRNA training on comparable footing to 4 years of anesthesia residency and 1 year of fellowship.

Schools are full of salespeople just like a used car lot. Just because they "are incorporating new, cutting-edge techniques" does not mean they are making you competent to practice pain management.

Honestly, I would love to believe the hype since it would make it easier for me to fulfill my dreams of integrating interventional pain management techniques with my acupuncture training. But we need to be honest with ourselves - will the training at CRNA school make us competent to perform interventional pain management techniques with a level of safety and efficacy similar to that as a pain management physician? How many hours of training in interventional pain management do these Texas schools offer, and how many cases will the SRNA see during training?

Like I said before, just because a person might legally have the ability to perform an intervention does not necessarily justify that they do that action. In most states, physicians can perform acupuncture with little or no training. Even the ones that become medical acupuncturists learn just a fraction of what I did and see a miniscule number of cases before they can see patients. Is their legal ability to perform acupuncture, regardless of the differential in training in experience between them and master's prepared acupuncturists, sufficient justification for them to practice?

But like I said, I would love to believe that a CRNA school could adequately prepare the student to perform interventional pain management, so if you really think some of the schools you are talking with have the curriculum to support your claim, please post your data.

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