CRNA vs MDA. Who wins?

Specialties CRNA

Published

Comprehensive comparison of lengths of education and training

CRNA: 4 years for a BSN followed by 1-2+ years as a tele/medsurg followed by 2+ years in the ICU followed by 2.5+ years in the crna program. In Total: 12 years +

Anesthesiologist: 4 years for BS degree, 4 years med school, 4 years residency. Total 12 years

In-conclusion, it takes the same length of time if not longer for nurse anesthetists and yet "most" anesthesiologists earn twice as much (comparing avg salaries 150K vs 300K), are higher on the totem pole when making authoritative decisions (they supervise crnas and have more say in the hospital cases), and IRONICALLY the crna's are the workhorses while the MDAs are slacking.

What gives?

I will be straight upfront. Both of my daughters are physicians and my SIL is an MD anesthesiologist. Unless you have walked in the shoes of a medical student/ resident there is no way of understanding the amount of difference in schooling. Yes, I am an RN, and yes I have close friends that are good, capable CRNAs.

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And yes I worked critical care and pediatric and adult open heart surgery for years with awesome MDs.

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Just asking.... Are you an RN, student, or a practicing CRNA? It appears you have been listening to quite bit of propaganda.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Prepare to be surprised then... I don't have any known friends or close affiliations with any MDAs. CRNAs do need to be supervised in some manner (to be determined by individual practice IMHO) as the CRNA cannot practice medicine. Basically the CRNA has to be able to "punt to" the MDA if the case is too complex or out of the depth of the CRNA. Frankly, my closest physician association is with a specific orthopedic surgeon and I haven't worked with him in over a decade.

If there were more MDAs, there would be downward pressure on salaries for them and they'd be more affordable. That would, in turn, put downward pressure on the CRNA salary...

If I'm employing physicians and there were lots of MDAs to choose from, I'd choose one that's also certified in another field, like IM or General Surgery, then I can pay them a little more and put them on the rotation to cover other services than just anesthesiology. Why not have an IM/MDA doc work as a hospitalist and cover non-operative anesthesiology services when not in the OR? The CRNA can't do that...

CRNAs have a proven independent safety record for the last 100+ years. CRNAs is lower than MDAs and there isn't one scientific study that has shown that independent CRNAs need supervision or that MDAs provide any greater care in anesthesia than CRNAs do. That is not an opinion that is a fact.

CRNAs don't need to "punt" anything. I am military CRNA and we are trained to be independent from the time we graduate and work with the most complex anesthesia cases.

It is also unusual to see a dual boarded anesthesiologists because it requires extra years of training. There are many MDAs that specialize in pain or critical care medicine though.

Study in Health Affairs Confirms Quality, Safety of Nurse Anesthetist Care http://www.aana.com/resources2/professionalpractice/Documents/Quality%20of%20Care%20in%20Anesthesia%2012102009.pdf

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>the NextCRNA I just read your introduction in another thread and have a better understanding about where you are coming from. During your shadowing experience, did you sit down and speak with CRNAs and MDs about their experiences? Did you shadow more than one person or at more than one facility? Medical school is not anywhere near as you described it. Calling any professional " slackers" is ill advised. You are still in the gathering of information stage of the process. I was hired directly out of my BSN program to work in the Trauma SICU. It can happen.

my best advice to you is to seek rather than speak.... Best of luck to you.

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Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

I have to laugh at the RNs who are not CRNA or other APRN specialties chiming in and telling us how we practice, REALLY?

You don't have a clue, truly. This is not said to be a jerk, just the truth.

I have not worked with MDAs for 20 years. WE ARE INDEPENDENT, period. Don't think that because the only thing you have seen in an ACT practice that it means that is the way all practices are. Look up the peer reviewed scientific evidence. CRNAs are as safe as MDAs, period. Multiple studies prove this.

It all comes down to the person, not the initials.

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Based on your previous post recently followed by this one, I'm guessing this is an upsetting issue to you. Posters on this forum have provided their arguments, but you seem to just want us to rephrase your thoughts and repeat it back to you.

Basically, if you're upset that one job has higher pay than another, you have the freedom to pursue the career with the higher pay.

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You know what...I totally agree with you. Your statement that it all comes down to the person, not the intials. I've seen scary MDs and scary CRNAs " if I see something squirley on the monitor, I just turn up the O2"....what a relief when that case was over!

I will say and always believe that the anesthesia provider is much more important than the surgeon.

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