CRNA VS anesthesiologist MD

[chrisciwi]

I am trying to decide weather I should become a CRNA or anesthesiologist.

Can anyone help with the pro's and con's of each

What do CRNA do that is different than a anesthesiologist?

What can a anesthesiologist do that a CRNA can't?

Any other information would be great (I have a huge interest in anesthesiology, and I am in a BSN program now, but I have been told to look into becoming a MD instead of a CRNA.)

Any help would be great. And thanks!

[DEMARRTAA-C]

Just to make it clear an RRT does not need to be a CRNA nor do they have to be a RN to do anethesia. RRT's per CoARC can be AA-T or AA-C's. The RRT as far as the AA-C is a lot more qualified than a CRNA and is considered a PA (they are PA's). AA schooling is a lot different than CRNA schooling and a lot more complex. The classes are far more advanced than that taken by a RN. '

Min Req. MCAT or GRE. MCAT score no lower than 27 GRE I do not remember. Upon completion you need to pass the PANCE exam. PLAIN and SIMPLE.

AS I SAID HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CRNA AND AA-C.

[core0]

Just to make it clear an RRT does not need to be a CRNA nor do they have to be a RN to do anethesia. RRT's per CoARC can be AA-T or AA-C's. The RRT as far as the AA-C is a lot more qualified than a CRNA and is considered a PA (they are PA's). AA schooling is a lot different than CRNA schooling and a lot more complex. The classes are far more advanced than that taken by a RN. '

Min Req. MCAT or GRE. MCAT score no lower than 27 GRE I do not remember. Upon completion you need to pass the PANCE exam. PLAIN and SIMPLE.

AS I SAID HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CRNA AND AA-C.

Just to make it clear AAs are not PAs. The credential PA-C is copyrighted by the NCCPA. It is only available to graduates of an ARC-PA accredited school who pass the PANCE. AAs graduate from a CAHEP accredited program which does not include the general medical education that PAs get. AAs are certified by the NCCAA and are not eligible to take the PANCE. In one state AAs are considered type B PAs (limited scope).

[nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NP]

I just have to laugh at this post. If you will be "more qualified" why can you not practice independently as a CRNA can? Why can you not practice in all states, as a CRNA can?

Why can you not get prescriptive authority, as a CRNA can? I can go on and on but I'll stop there.

Very amusing post, keep telling yourself that. :)

Ron

Just to make it clear an RRT does not need to be a CRNA nor do they have to be a RN to do anethesia. RRT's per CoARC can be AA-T or AA-C's. The RRT as far as the AA-C is a lot more qualified than a CRNA and is considered a PA (they are PA's). AA schooling is a lot different than CRNA schooling and a lot more complex. The classes are far more advanced than that taken by a RN. '

Min Req. MCAT or GRE. MCAT score no lower than 27 GRE I do not remember. Upon completion you need to pass the PANCE exam. PLAIN and SIMPLE.

AS I SAID HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CRNA AND AA-C.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

Just to make it clear an RRT does not need to be a CRNA nor do they have to be a RN to do anethesia. RRT's per CoARC can be AA-T or AA-C's. The RRT as far as the AA-C is a lot more qualified than a CRNA and is considered a PA (they are PA's). AA schooling is a lot different than CRNA schooling and a lot more complex. The classes are far more advanced than that taken by a RN. '

Min Req. MCAT or GRE. MCAT score no lower than 27 GRE I do not remember. Upon completion you need to pass the PANCE exam. PLAIN and SIMPLE.

AS I SAID HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CRNA AND AA-C.

Gee, I had to take the GRE for anesthesia school - and physics and organic chem. I know plenty of people who are incredibly science smart and anesthesia dumb. I think my years of nursing experience (11) before I went to anesthesia school contributed greatly to my ability to discern the horses from the zebras. AND - I don't need an anesthesiologist present to work. That's important to some people even though most CRNA's work in the team plan. However, as more studies come out re: safety of CRNA's working alone, the model will change and more CRNA's will be working alone. AA's can't do that.

[BCRNA]

AA's are not PAs. You do assist a physician, but your an AA. PA credential is different. That's like a crna saying they are an AA it vice versa. The surgical PAs I work with are very quick to point this out. Also, exactly how is your education better? I would agree that the anesthesia portion is the same. But if it is so much better, why do you have a smaller scope of practice and NO autonomy. The MDs I work with tell me that technically AAs aren't suppose to make ANY decisions on their own. The reality is that they do, but if a bad outcome occurs the AA is hung out if the MD says they didn't make that decision and was never informed. And by smaller scope of practice I mean you can not function independently in private practice, I know your technical skills are the same.

[BCRNA]

All the CRNA's need to check out www.anesthetist.org , it's good for a laugh. I kept saying "wow" as I was reading about the profession. I have respect for AA's and do believe that an experienced CRNA and an AA can provide the same level of care. Though, how many times and in how many different ways can they say that an AA must be supervised and only "assists" with anesthesia on their website. It even goes as far to say the anesthesiologist has to determine the type of anesthetic, though fortunately the AA can "assist". Check out the practice statements, talk about trying to gain control and a monopoly by the MD's. I would welcome AA's with open arms if they weren't so controlled by MD's. I will be honest and just say that I think MD's created AA's in an attempt to further their monopoly and try to push CRNAs down. I don't have anything against AA's. I just don't want them used to control my pay or try to push me out of practice. If AA's proliferate then that is what is going to happen. MD's will hire the people they have total control over and then dictate what you get paid keeping most of the money for themselves. It isn't a patient safety issue, anesthesia is extremely safe regardless of the provider used.

And what good is bragging about starting the graduate program having completed a pre-medical background. I checked out all the prereq's required to get into AA programs. Every CRNA I know has those. The only difference is that most CRNA have a BSN instead of a BS. Most RN's do not have the scientific background, but CRNA's do. We take the same organic, biochemistry, and biology classes. And specializing in nursing, in my opinion, better prepares for anesthesia. I started off with an enormous knowledge base on pathophysiology, pharmacology, and vasoactive drugs. Not to mention IV starting skills and intubation skills (I worked in a place where the RN's did it). Does knowing advanced physics or advanced molecular knowledge make you any better at anesthesia? No. The prereq's listed teach you everything you need to know to get started. People who want to get into a CRNA program take advanced science classes to get in. And having to take the MCAT doesn't make you any better or smarter. The MCAT shows that the person has a good grasp on the sciences. You would be very hard pressed to show how alot of what is in the test could be translated into use in anesthesia. I can't remember having to use any thermodynamics or physics equations of any kind in order to provide anesthesia.

Looking at the requirements to get into an AA program on their website, correct me if I am wrong, but it is possible to have just a few science classes and a degree in philosopy, history, or art and get into an AA program.

[DEMARRTAA-C]

Bryan AA-C programs in the US are PA programs. Hence I had gone to Emory. Bryan I think you are thinking of the Anesthesia Assistant Technologist which is totally different. It like comparing the CRT to a RRT of you in your field a LVN,LPN to a RN.

[stanman1968]

AA classes are not far more complex, they are not better trained one can make an excellent argument that there training is inferior, they are taught to be dependent and many are taught little to no regional, that kind of limits what one can do, better only if inability or under training is "better".

[core0]

Bryan AA-C programs in the US are PA programs. Hence I had gone to Emory. Bryan I think you are thinking of the Anesthesia Assistant Technologist which is totally different. It like comparing the CRT to a RRT of you in your field a LVN,LPN to a RN.

AAs are not PAs. They are not trained in general medicine. They are trained in a specific area of medicine. Only in Georgia are they referred to as PAs. This is a result of Georgia adopting an already outmoded concept of PA practice in the late 1960s which referred to specialty PAs as type B PAs. This was quickly abandoned. To reiterate all PA programs in the US are accredited by ARC-PA. Can you please show any AA program that is accredited by ARC-PA? If you don't graduate from a PA program you are not a PA.

[BCRNA]

My statements were based on what I have heard from surgical pa's say. Sorry if it isn't right, you can set me straight. What they said is that AAs may go to school alongside PAs but they aren't PAs, their certification and licensure is AA, they have a completely different scope of practice. It would be like a crna claiming to be a NP. Just because we went to school together doesn't make us the same. Are you a PA-c and a AA-c. I checked out your schools website, why is there a 19 month track for PA-c holders and a 24 month track for just a bachelors degree? Can the PA-c be earned with just five months extra? The site said both groups are eligible for AA certification. From my perspective it would seem more logical that if an aa was equal to pa, then your credential would be pa behind your name. Would like to hear your explanation, would be interesting. And is there another anesthesia provider one step under AA's?

I was shocked to see an anesthesia program only 19 months long. Technically we only are required 24, but most are 28 to 34. What websites would be good to learn about AAs? I don't work with any and would like reliable info about them.

[nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NP]

The shorter 19 month track is for PAs who want to become anesthesia assistants. You must already be a PA.

Even the PAs who do this program and become AAs are not "better" than CRNAs. Speaking as one who is BOTH a FNP and CRNA. The PA/FNP does not help much in giving better anesthesia care.

The fact remains that AAs must function supervised(by MDA)not any physician and are only allowed to practice in certain states. I can practice in any state and do not have to work with MD anesthesiologist. I can also practice totally independently, can do chronic pain if I want and BTW, have prescriptive authority. I can also do everything the MDA can do, blocks, lines etc.

[core0]

My statements were based on what I have heard from surgical pa's say. Sorry if it isn't right, you can set me straight. What they said is that AAs may go to school alongside PAs but they aren't PAs, their certification and licensure is AA, they have a completely different scope of practice. It would be like a crna claiming to be a NP. Just because we went to school together doesn't make us the same.

The schools that I am directly familar with have completely separate programs for PAs and AAs. They might share a few classes such as anatomy, but most PA schools use a systems based approach which wouldn't be very useful for AAs. One way of looking at it, is that an AA is a limited scope PA. This is the licensure method that Georgia uses. It basically dates from a time in the 1960's when there were a bunch of experimental models which had type A - generalist PAs, type B limited scope PAs (Anesthesia, surgery, OB-GYN, psych among others) and type C PAs which were technical PAs (ortho PA is probably the best example of this). Both the profession and organized medicine rejected this fairly quickly after the experiment started and with the exception of AAs most of the other type B PA programs were absorbed into the mainstream PA programs. There exist PA programs which have a specific focus such as surgery or primary care but all PA programs have to have the same broad training in general medicine with exposure to all areas of medicine (generally). For that matter in most states there is nothing that directly prevents a PA from doing general anesthesia. There are lots of PAs in perioperative medicine, pain medicine and even a few doing general anesthesia.

The other way of looking at it is that they are two separate professions which happen to have common methods of training. One in specific area of medicine and one in general medicine. This is the approach that most states take that license AAs (separately outside the PA practice act).

Are you a PA-c and a AA-c. I checked out your schools website, why is there a 19 month track for PA-c holders and a 24 month track for just a bachelors degree? Can the PA-c be earned with just five months extra? The site said both groups are eligible for AA certification. From my perspective it would seem more logical that if an aa was equal to pa, then your credential would be pa behind your name. Would like to hear your explanation, would be interesting. And is there another anesthesia provider one step under AA's?

I was shocked to see an anesthesia program only 19 months long. Technically we only are required 24, but most are 28 to 34. What websites would be good to learn about AAs? I don't work with any and would like reliable info about them.

I'm not sure who this is directed at, but I'm a PA-C. Theoretically the reason for the PA to AA track is that PAs have had the didactic portion covered in the first semester of the AA program in their PA program. What I know about this is what I've seen at PA conventions. Other than that its up to Emory to make sure their graduates are trained. For web sites you can look at the certification website:

http://www.aa-nccaa.org/

and the AAAA here:

http://www.anesthetist.org/

As far as an AA becoming a PA the AA would lack an education in general medicine. In particular outpatient, inpatient, ambulatory, surgical and emergency medicine. The NCCPA requires that a student graduate an ARC-PA accredited program with didactic and clinical education in all of those areas and more. So no you would need more than 5 months of training for an AA to become a PA. Essentially there are no shortcuts for the PA education. The PharmD in my program had to take all of the pharmacology courses.

Basically to have the credential AA-C behind your name you have to graduate from an AA program and pass the certification exam. If you want the PA-C behind your name you have to graduate from a ARC-PA accredited PA program and pass the PANCE.