CRNA, Anesthesiologist Relationships

[cristianomiguel]

To any SRNAs and CRNAs,

I am an RN starting CRNA school later this year. Anesthesia intrigues me, and I have highly enjoyed every shadowing experience I've had with CRNAs. I have spent years of my life committed to joining this field. While preparing for school, I've perused the internet regarding the state of the field of anesthesia, and it is worrying. I've seen so much animosity between physicians and nurse anesthetists.

I hate drama. I don't like politics distracting from the quality of patient care. I know people can be entirely different behind the computer screen (e.g. keyboard warriors), but I am still worried. Are these online wars of malicious opinions a true reflection of the field? Is there animosity in the clinical setting? Maybe it is all over-exaggerated, but I've seen so many negative opinions of the field of anesthesia and the direction it's heading from both sides (nurses and physicians). I just don't want to join a field that is in the middle of a huge war.

I respect physicians and the years of their lives they've spent dedicated to the practice of medicine. I equally respect nurses and APRNs who've done the same. Any reflections and experiences would be appreciated.

[SuziQ1978]

I would venture to say that most anesthesiologists and CRNAs get along just fine. But apparently some people on here just want to focus on the negatives that docs just want to keep CRNAs down and Docs want to turn every practice into an ACT practice, etc BS.

I am an ICU/OR nurse (full time ICU) and am thinking of CRNA school. My best friend I grew up with went on to medical school and I got my RN degree. We have a group of friends who are RN/CRNA/MDs. We all get along great.

Don't be disheartened. The real world is probably not as bad as this board.

On 4/23/2020 at 8:01 PM, wtbcrna said:

Anesthesiology is literally the study of anesthesia. Modern anesthesia was invented by a dentist and was a nursing speciality decades prior to it being a medical speciality so if you want to quote historical precedent then physicians are practice a nursing speciality. The term nurse anesthesiologist has been around since at least the 1950s.
That is without even quoting the early court battles that determined when a nurse practices anesthesia it’s a nursing speciality.

I don't understand why nurses would let the MDs take over the practice if that's the case. How did this happen? Was the AANA around then?

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

12 minutes ago, SuziQ1978 said:

I would venture to say that most anesthesiologists and CRNAs get along just fine. But apparently some people on here just want to focus on the negatives that docs just want to keep CRNAs down and Docs want to turn every practice into an ACT practice, etc BS.

I am an ICU/OR nurse (full time ICU) and am thinking of CRNA school. My best friend I grew up with went on to medical school and I got my RN degree. We have a group of friends who are RN/CRNA/MDs. We all get along great.

Don't be disheartened. The real world is probably not as bad as this board.

I don't understand why nurses would let the MDs take over the practice if that's the case. How did this happen? Was the AANA around then?

13 minutes ago, SuziQ1978 said:

I would venture to say that most anesthesiologists and CRNAs get along just fine. But apparently some people on here just want to focus on the negatives that docs just want to keep CRNAs down and Docs want to turn every practice into an ACT practice, etc BS.

I am an ICU/OR nurse (full time ICU) and am thinking of CRNA school. My best friend I grew up with went on to medical school and I got my RN degree. We have a group of friends who are RN/CRNA/MDs. We all get along great.

Don't be disheartened. The real world is probably not as bad as this board.

I don't understand why nurses would let the MDs take over the practice if that's the case. How did this happen? Was the AANA around then?

In the work area CRNAs and MDAs do usually get along just fine. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t constant underlying issues or that politics of anesthesia aren’t still there.
Your experience with anesthesia providers is very limited and only encompasses one type of anesthesia practice.

Read “Watchful Care” if you’re interested.
https://www.aana.com/store/AANA-books

[Subee2, BSN, MSN, CRNA]

14 minutes ago, SuziQ1978 said:

I would venture to say that most anesthesiologists and CRNAs get along just fine. But apparently some people on here just want to focus on the negatives that docs just want to keep CRNAs down and Docs want to turn every practice into an ACT practice, etc BS.

I am an ICU/OR nurse (full time ICU) and am thinking of CRNA school. My best friend I grew up with went on to medical school and I got my RN degree. We have a group of friends who are RN/CRNA/MDs. We all get along great.

Don't be disheartened. The real world is probably not as bad as this board.

I don't understand why nurses would let the MDs take over the practice if that's the case. How did this happen? Was the AANA around then?

They have a wealthy lobby in Washington, DC. Ours isn't far behind and that's why they haven't been able to get their hands around our necks. But they keep beating their heads on the wall attempting to change what they can't...the facts. I am not one to say that CRNA's can do it all, but we can certainly provide 90 percent of the anesthetics provided on any given day. However, I do have concerns about the widening drift between education and graduation as colleges embrace something more akin to a business model and fail to provide consist instructors (employees of the universities) to monitor student progress or lack thereof. This problem can't be resolve with another year of education mandated with the DNP. But residents also receive a scattered breaking into the field . I feel sorry for the residents coming to my former employers. The MD's are bitter, miserable and exhausted. The last thing they want to do is slow the schedule down with beginners. Corporate anesthesia at it's worst.

[SuziQ1978]

16 minutes ago, wtbcrna said:

In the work area CRNAs and MDAs do usually get along just fine. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t constant underlying issues or that politics of anesthesia aren’t still there.
Your experience with anesthesia providers is very limited and only encompasses one type of anesthesia practice.

Read “Watchful Care” if you’re interested.
https://www.aana.com/store/AANA-books

Nope. I have worked in a couple of hospitals in my town and one of them has CRNAs whereas most of the others only have docs. I have dealt with both but mostly docs.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

2 minutes ago, SuziQ1978 said:

Nope. I have worked in a couple of hospitals in my town and one of them has CRNAs whereas most of the others only have docs. I have dealt with both but mostly docs.

You have worked in an independent CRNA practice?

[SuziQ1978]

2 minutes ago, wtbcrna said:

You have worked in an independent CRNA practice?

No, you said I have worked in only one type of practice. I said no, I have worked in two types of practice. ACT and Doc only.

[txsky SRNA]

On 6/17/2019 at 9:37 AM, subee said:

I actually used to work in a substance program for RN's and my boss had come to the nurses' program from the doctors' program so I am very familiar with what is going on in substance abuse among all the healthcare folks. The rate of addiction between MDA's and CRNA's is the SAME. The difference is that many CRNA's are hauled away to the more punitive nurse programs and the MD's get to go to their less punitive programs. Substance abuse in anesthesia is a different beast for us than it is for the other specialties...so you are going to see a higher incidence in anesthesia settings. Why are you so bitter against CRNA's? Something else is going on here since you seem to be the only one railing against us on this site. CRNA's aren't better providers than MDA's. We provide the SAME quality and that is a fact. It's just simply a fact and you are putting so much emotion into your lack of an argument. If you go through the posts here you will find that you were the first one to post demeaning remarks. We need both level of practitioners. It's just our argument that we need less MDA's and more CRNA's as part of a rational national plan to get anesthesia to everyone that needs it. Are you opposed to all advanced practice nurses or just us? Have a blessed day.

She has a MD husband, a pair of MD girls, and a MD SIL. She is the only nurse in her family.

She is not a CRNA or anything related to anesthesia. I do not understand why she is so mean to other nurses and constantly comes here to attack CRNA.

[Subee2, BSN, MSN, CRNA]

Oh dear. A woman with self esteem issues so let's fall better about ourselves by belittling others. She can't be having much of a good time with life with a n uninformed and nasty attitude.

[txsky SRNA]

On 4/25/2020 at 5:04 PM, DO_question said:

The concerns were chiefly that before 1976 CRNAs were getting a bachelor's degree... I have 5 years of clinical experience prior to my medical education and I can tell you it's worth something. It's made me a better student and a better provider than I would be otherwise, but it's no replacement for formal medical education.

Nobody wants to squash you. CRNAs are rather obviously here to stay and I don't think sane persons want that to change. We take issue with claims of equivalency or that CRNAs should be practicing without supervising physicians. I presume you guys just think we twiddle thumbs for years more than you? Call it what you want, but you're practicing medicine without the support of a full medical education or a full residency training.

Cool story. My undergrad used the same text for anatomy as one of my professors in medical school... Does that mean anything? No. What a ridiculous conclusion to think that reading the same textbook means you know a subject to the same depth... You guys start taking our board exams (both medical school and board certification exams) and we can talk equivalency.

Little boy,
The reason the ASA pushed "physician Anesthesiologist" is related to this discussion, CRNAs (or more accurately their lobbies) seem to be so insecure that they push to make themselves as indistinguishable from Anesthesiologists as possible in every way but the education and residency rigor.

I took USMLE step 1 and I passed it. Please do not make it sounds so mysterious. And I believe majority of my follow SRNA classmates can pass it if given that chance to go to med schools. They are so smart. They are all elite out from ICU nurses.