Community College Selection Process-What A Joke!

U.S.A. California

Published

I am one of those middle-aged students who just applied for the Nursing Program at my local college. I was very careful to pick a college that based their selection process on merit. However, the local college I attend was forced by the Chancellor of the California Community College system to change the selection criteria for the Nursing program. Some of you know this new process as the lottery system. This happened well into the process of working on my Prereqs. Due to money considerations, it was immpossible for me to change colleges. I feared at the time that this new process would hurt me, because I have never been one of those who has benefited from chance drawings. My name was not picked during this so-called lottery. You see, under the old guidelines the top 7% went straight into the program. I made the the top 5%, however my academic achievement under the new system means nothing. I was forced to compete for a spot with all applicants who scored above 70%.

Now please understand that I am well aware that some have many responsibilities outside of school. I am no different. I have someone who I care about very much who is an epileptic. She has never been under control. I have had many nights that I have spent in the ER rather than sleeping or studying. I have paid the price many times over to be where I am now. But I am getting close to fifty. And at this point, I am very emotionally tired. I really do fear that if I do not get in by the next semester, that I will not be able to finish my dream. I am very angry and dissapointed that this has happened to me. In fact, my longtime study partner was accepted and I cannot even talk to her because it upsets me knowing that she will be moving on without me. I do wish her the best but it is just too painful. But the thing that bothers me the most is that I am being told by this new process that my academic achievement means nothing.

I have to admit, that even though I am a man I broke down and cried.

I believe there is room for all types of selection processes in our state. But this new model is nothing but socialism. It rewards the many but penalizes those who achieve the most and some of us pay the ultimate cost. Please be aware that the Chancellor is trying to force this program on every single community college in the state.

I just do not know where I am going to go from here.

Sorry, but I had to log off earlier. To add to my previous post ...

Not many would accept the hard work being a nurse except those who either suffered the 6+ years to become and RN here in the states or those who are willing to leave home, and work extra hard to help support their families.

The past ten years in California, many Univeristies had dropped their BSN programs. The state BON stop accepting Excelsior College graduates in 2004 (where as 50% of all nursing graduates in California came from Excelsior College alone, the other 50% came from all the ADN and BSN programs within the state combined).

Interestingly, when California implemented the Ratio Law, I have yet to hear of a hospital closing down in California because the added expense of hiring more nurses to remain within the law destroying the profit margin.

So it all comes down to $$$$. Earn the highest amount of profit, with the least amount of people. All industies follow this including hospitals.

Yes, it is frustrating, especially to those who have it in their heart to become a nurse.

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I learned you never put all your eggs in one basket.

Tim, I hope you get accepted to a program so you can accomplish your goal of becoming a nurse. Good luck to you.

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First thing Tim, It's not the fault of the overseas nurses desire to come and earn more or have a better opportunity for themselves or families. That is not even an issue.

Second, the hospital I work at pay overseas sponsored nurse the same hourly rate and give the same benefits as an "American" nurse; as they should. To pay less or provide less benefits solely because someone is hired from outside the US is illegal and immoral. If any hospital does that, they will get caught and pay the price.

My point is your difficulty in becoming a nurse is because they way the system is set up. It's not your fault, It's deefinitely not any of the overseas nurses fault.

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So, since there is a "shortage" of nurses, where do they find some? Well some come from the local nursing school, yes, but most are recruited from overseas. God love 'em, these recruited off shore nurses want to be good nurses, work hard so they can help provide family back home.

I'm no fan of foreign nurse situation, but to say there's some conspiracy to hire foreign nurses by the BRN is somewhat absurd. Most hires aren't foreign nurses.

According to the BRN, CA nursing schools put out roughly 7,000 graduates a year. And, in just the last 17 months, 37,000 new RN's have been licensed in California with a lot of those new licensees coming from out of state.

Meanwhile, only 3,400 foreign nurses apply for licensure here each year, and not all of them stay here. Some of them apply to Cali to get their initial license but then they endorse into another state.

Estimates vary but it costs a hospital anywhere from $6K to $25K to hire a foreign nurse, with the average cost being somewhere around $15K. So, while they can and do save money with foreign nurses, it may not always be as much as we think it is.

The past ten years in California, many Univeristies had dropped their BSN programs. The state BON stop accepting Excelsior College graduates in 2004 (where as 50% of all nursing graduates in California came from Excelsior College alone, the other 50% came from all the ADN and BSN programs within the state combined).

Again, I think your numbers are wrong. As I recall, the total number of Excelsior students in the state was roughly 5,000. But certainly not all of them were ready to graduate all at the same time.

Even if you assume half of them did graduate at the same time (which would be a really high number) at 2,500 students, that wouldn't be anywhere near the 7,000 graduates the 100 or so Cali nursing programs put out each year.

With all of the incentive bonuses and increased pay hospitals have had to offer to attract more nurses, it doesn't make any sense that the hospitals would actually be behind a conspiracy to manufacture the shortage.

With an average hospital RN vacancy rate of 15 percent, the shortage is actually costing them ... not saving them money.

:typing

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Second, the hospital I work at pay overseas sponsored nurse the same hourly rate and give the same benefits as an "American" nurse; as they should. To pay less or provide less benefits solely because someone is hired from outside the US is illegal and immoral. If any hospital does that, they will get caught and pay the price.

Actually, that's not completely true either. This is how it works.

Let's say a hospital pays low wages and doesn't want to raise their staff pay. The U.S. Labor Department says those low wages are ok because their data is often out of date by two years or more, and often doesn't keep up with increased market wages in the area.

The hospital can't hire U.S. nurses at those low wages because the RN's go to the better paying hospitals. So, instead of raising their pay to attract U.S. nurses, that's when you see the hospitals hiring foreign nurses at the low pay rates set by the Labor Dept.

They are paying the foreign nurses the same as the U.S. staff nurses BUT ... the overall pay at that hospital is still low for the marketplace at large. That's how they save money and keep wages low legally.

Do all hospitals do this? No. Some hospitals still pay good wages and hire foreign nurses and some hospitals don't hire foreign nurses at all.

But the hospitals who pay the lowest wages, at least in my area, also tend to be the hospitals that hire the most foreign nurses.

:typing

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Why is it that so many threads seem to turn on "foreign nurses"?

If I didn't know better I would think tht most US nurses dislike nurses from other countries. (I do know better) :lol2:

Because of my of background I know many,many healthcare workers in the US from all over the world.

A few where taken advantage of by agencies and hospitals when they first came. NONE of them are still working for those cheats.

As a proud American with a foot in two cultures, it sometimes hurts me.

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Tim,

I read your story. I do hope you get accepted very soon.

If you already have a Bachelor's I would suggest you check out a direct-entry MSN-RN program for non-nurses. You sound like a perfect fit for that type of program.

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Tim,

I read your story. I do hope you get accepted very soon.

If you already have a Bachelor's I would suggest you check out a direct-entry MSN-RN program for non-nurses. You sound like a perfect fit for that type of program.

I am not quite there yet. But I will be back in after the Holidays and working toward my Bachelor's. I came from a family that did not value a college education. So as a consequence, it took me longer than most to get to this point. It has always been my intention to take this beyond an ADN. I had an email from a very close friend that helped me develop some perspective. I am now looking at the entire picture.

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I learned you never put all your eggs in one basket.

Tim, I hope you get accepted to a program so you can accomplish your goal of becoming a nurse. Good luck to you.

Good Point!!!

I did put all my eggs in one basket there for a while. That's not a very good thing to do.

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Why is it that so many threads seem to turn on "foreign nurses"?

If I didn't know better I would think tht most US nurses dislike nurses from other countries. (I do know better) :lol2:

Because of my of background I know many,many healthcare workers in the US from all over the world.

A few where taken advantage of by agencies and hospitals when they first came. NONE of them are still working for those cheats.

As a proud American with a foot in two cultures, it sometimes hurts me.

I think it is out of frustration. I really do not think it is out of a dislike. If those who have the power would invest into our own infrastructure, then we would not be having discussions about it.

As for myself, I just want to see a better environment for those who aspire to enter this profession. As we have compassion toward those who are in need of care, I believe that our own government needs to have compassion toward us that desire to acheive.

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Specializes in Emergency Room.

I have to agree that is awful.... I too at 43, have to start all over, I am working full time and have two kids.. There is no way I can compete with a person fresh out of high School with no other responsibilities and expect myself to make an A in every course... The reality is this is not med school or an engineering school.... So what do you do to the person who has an average of 3.0? Shoud we keep them from acheiving their goal and dream. What about the students who have Bachelors or Master degrees already but only had 3.0 overall GPA... Why should they be penalized and have to retake courses all over again? The reality is, 50% of students end up droping out of their nursing programs, the majority of the class having students with 3.5-4.0 averages... Its not because of their inability to do the academic work, but because of the amount of time the nursing programs require between book work and clinicals.... Then you have a good number of students who drop during the first week of clinicals, because they have to deal with sick people, who vomit, bleed, pee and have bowl movements, and they realize shows such as Grays Anatomy, and House are not real... The issue is very complex and I do not think there is an easy solution.... Best of luck to you and all the future nurses !!!!!!

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Specializes in Tele Step Down, Oncology, ICU, Med/Surg.

It's just counter intuitive that there aren't seats for 3.0+ students within a nursing shortage. But, I don't feel it's some sort of conspiracy. These classes are just plain harder to administrate, staff and teach. Several Bay Area hospitals have subsidized BSN and ADN programs on local extention campuses, so it's clear that the intent is to grow/hire locally.

As an older prenursing student and a mom of three (3, 7 and 12 years old), I am concerned that nursing school may not be able to afford me the scheduling flexibility I may need.

Not all students lead simple "live with the parents" lives that allow them to focus completely on school anymore--even the 20 year-olds! This is why I'm not even looking at the accelerated programs. I'm shaking in my boots wondering how I am going to manage a regular 2-3 year nursing program.

So far I've been able to keep up with the pressure to earn high grades by only taking two or three courses a semester, and allowing myself the rare B when an A grade would have cost too family time.

Given my maturity, solid professional and academic background, and the fact I've dealt with so many medical issues within my own life, I have a lot to offer the nursing profession. I have a great husband who is my biggest support and cheerleader. I know I have the drive and determination to make it all swing together. But unfortunately it will come at a sacrifice of worry free time with my kids. It will benefit them in the long run, but I wish it wouldn't have to be at such a great price.

It's a shame there aren't more seats within more flexible programs. Let's make a commitment not forget how we felt at this point in time; Maybe one day we can all be part of advocating and creating change with the current feeder system for nurses.

I for one wouldn't mind becoming a teacher in later years. Sort of what I became within my prior career, so it's reasonable I will follow the same progression with nursing.

Of course, these are just my random day dreams for now. Will take it one day at a time. Back to the books.

Is it just me, or does this online forum stuff become very seductive when studying for finals?

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