Columbia University ETP 2008

planet612 · Feb 8, 2009

Hi dg05 and other current ETP students,

Thank you very much for taking your precious time to answer questions regarding the program. I found so many helpful information from this thread. I got accepted for ETP 2009 in nurse midwifery specialty. Right now I am in the process of making final decision. The high tuition is my biggest concern since i come from a low income family and just graduated from college w/o any savings. I read people's hardship of find ICU job right after their BSN portion, does it apply to other non-ICU (regular floor) RN job as well? Also, I heard that some specialities, like midwifery are not allowed the students to work during the master portion, is that ture?

Thank you in advance!!!

dg05, RN · Feb 8, 2009

You are not allowed to work during the clinical portion of your midwifery education. This means that you can take a year working and taking the non-clinical classes but you must spend at least another year (in addition to the ETP year) not working. It is fast and intense and you have a lot to learn, that's why they say you can't work. Some people work a few shifts a month but that's always easier to do once you already have experience.

A word about jobs in manhattan right now -- they're extremely hard to find. I know people who are still looking and who have been RNs since last summer. They're looking with varying degrees of dedication but still. Many hospitals are flat out not hiring ANYONE because of budget issue. Older nurses aren't retiring because of the economy, etc. I don't know how things will be a year or more from now when you guys are looking for work but for right now, it's tough out there.

I went to Columbia for a number of reasons and I stopped after my BSN. It looks like I probably won't go back because I can get the education I want at a different school for 1/4 of the price. Everyone says that name counts. I'm not so sure about that. And 70k is a lot to pay for a name. I love living in NYC and I met a lot of great people through the program but I can't say that I wouldn't think really, really hard about doing things this way again. I would have given myself another year and applied to cheaper programs. Accelerated programs exist now all over the country and I can't help but thinking even with the name and the allure of NYC that the cost of my education to be a NURSE (a great thing but something other people are paying 10k to do) was way out of proportion to what I received.

dg

planet612 · Feb 9, 2009

Dear dg05,

thank you so much for your reply. Right now, I am searching about the alternative plan, but noticing there are not that many direct entry program for nurse midwifery cross the country. (I got rejected by UCSF and worrying that even i try again next year i might not get in) Again i am taking a high risk of not finding a NP job since nurse midwifery seems like a new and controversial profession. By any chance, do you any one who is in this profession? or know anything about this speciality, like hiring rate?

Anyway, I am happy for you that you found something that work for you. No matter what path we take, I am pretty sure everything will work out fine for us at the end, if it's not, then it's not the end yet.

Tanguera, BSN, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 9, 2009

So I haven't posted to this forum in a while but I'm reading it again and it's very helpful!! So thank you to everyone again for all of the information. I just got into Columbia ETP 2009 for the Family NP specialty so I'm excited but I am also waiting to hear back from other programs.

I am waiting specifically from SUNY Downstate since they have a class size of 50. I know it will be competitive since they only accept 10% of their applicants every year (and maybe this year even fewer since ETP got 50% more apps this year!) but I wonder if any of the ETPers think the class size is too big and makes things very impersonal? I went to college at a small liberal arts school so I had very small classes and the idea of having that many people in the program makes me wonder how much individual attention we'll get. I know there are office hours, but does it feel so big that the professors don't know each of the students even by name??

fionagurl · Feb 9, 2009

dg,

Thanks for your input. I read on this forum that many etp students are hired from their integraton sites. Is this true?

dg05, RN · Feb 9, 2009

Fiona - This is usually true but when I graduated (May 08) I can say that I honestly only know about one person who was hired directly to her integration site. Of course, I only know a limited number of people but still...also, I know several people who did not get hired to their site because of hiring freezes, etc.

planet612 - midwifery is definitely NOT a new profession and it's been cyclical in terms of how popular it is. There was recently a NYT article on how home birth midwives in NYC can't keep up with the demand. More people are choosing home birth midwives because they don't trust hospitals and they don't trust doctors. I'm not sure about hiring rates. My most recent monster search showed a lot of positions nationwide but I'm sure it depends on where you want to be. Laura (the head of midwifery) always says that you'll never get a CNM job in California. Who knows how true that is...I don't want to speak out of turn but it seems like you don't know much about this field. Have you shadowed a midwife? Or even an L&D nurse? Have you read what a CNM does on a daily basis? Are you ready to be politically active (Laura requires it). I would do a lot more research before you figure out if this is what you want to do for the next 30 years of your life or whatever.

Tanguera - yes, it is impersonal and class size does get in the way. During out integration some people had to work in a group because the administration couldn't find enough clinical placements. That's shameful -- and not the education we were promised. After the summer you break into smaller groups -- of like 35 or something like that so it becomes easier for professors to remember you. And you find your favorite professor and make a connection with them. But yeah, not a lot of face time with the profs. Also, there is a LOT of beuracracy and the Columbia administration treats everyone like they're teenagers. Sort of annoying if you've been living on your own for a decade to be treated like a kid.

Anyway, just my two cents to all of you. Best of luck whatever you decide.

planet612 · Feb 9, 2009

Dear dg05

Thank you so much for you input. I guess it's not true that there isn't any CNM job in CA. I have been volunteered in a CA hospital on the L&D floor for more than a year as a translator for the patients while they were having the babies. Most babies were actually delivered by midwifes. I saw doctor only once and it's because other midwifes were busy with other deliveries and they had to get the on-call doctor.

You are absolutely right, there are still many more things I need to/want to learn about this profession and I hope columbia is the right place for that.

Can I ask one more question? What does she (Laura) mean "to be politically active"?

doggiedad · Feb 9, 2009

Hi dg05, Thanks for your insight. I'm deciding between Columbia and UPenn for BSN and FNP and this information is very helpful.

If you have any other thoughts for a future ETP'er, I'd love to hear them.

dg05, RN · Feb 11, 2009

planet612 - for example the midwifery students take a field trip to Albany to speak with legislators there about midwifery practice in the state, etc.

Doggie Dad - if you're going to Columbia this is the advice I would give you:

(1) have an attitude of zen when dealing with administration. They will treat you like you're 12. They belittle and talk down to students as a matter of course it seems. Stay on top of your stuff. That said, always wait a day to do anything because there were a number of times I did things right away and they changed the rules so I had done needless work.

(2) Some Columbia students go into the hospitals as if they're God's gift to the nurses. DO NOT DO THIS. I don't care if you are only going to nursing school to become an NP. Nursing is a HARD job and the nurses on the floor deserve your respect. HELP THEM. They will teach you and appreciate you and your life will be easier. Do not sit around the nursing desk twiddling your thumbs. Even if you don't know the first thing about nursing you can do small things for the nurse -- get water for her patient if she asks you to, etc.

(3) If you can, work while you're doing your NP. I think it will help you be a better NP !

(4) Enjoy ! I really loved nursing school (and Columbia) despite all of my grumpiness.

KHNurse2B · Nov 9, 2009

"To cut this story short if I could do it all over again, I still don't know what I would do, I am allready torn between staying here in NH and applying to programs in this area (because I really know I will not enjoy the anesthesia program) or just go back to NYC to get this education thing over with. "

Dear ICU08,

I have been scouring these message boards to find information to the Columbia ETP program for Nurse Anesthesia. I find your post particularly helpful. I was trying to PM you, but I guess I am not entitled that priviledge until I make some posts.

Anyhow, I was just curious.. did you end up staying in NH or did you go back to Columbia? As I am originally from California, ideally, I would love to go to the Kaiser Permanente CRNA program in California (excellent program and only 22K!), but I think my future is in NYC for at least 3 more years, and I figured I would try to progress in my career here in NY as fast as possible. I am terrified of the 150K in debt that I would be stuck with if I went to Columbia, but would be willing to pay the price for an excellent education. However, you seem to be really really really dissatisfied with your choice-- do you still feel this way? If you decided to go back for the anesthesia portion, how would you say the masters weighs in in comparison to the ETP portion? Is it better/worse/same? Why did you say you'd think you not enjoy it?

I'm also concerned about not finding a job after the first year, as I have always had a bit of difficulty in any interview -- I'm a bit soft spoken and on the shy side. Did ANYONE find a job in NY after the ETP portion?

Thanks in advance, and of course, I'd love to hear from anyone who has an opinion about the Columbia ETP Nurse Anesthesia program!

ICU08 · Nov 9, 2009

"To cut this story short if I could do it all over again, I still don't know what I would do, I am allready torn between staying here in NH and applying to programs in this area (because I really know I will not enjoy the anesthesia program) or just go back to NYC to get this education thing over with. "
Dear ICU08,
I have been scouring these message boards to find information to the Columbia ETP program for Nurse Anesthesia. I find your post particularly helpful. I was trying to PM you, but I guess I am not entitled that priviledge until I make some posts.
Anyhow, I was just curious.. did you end up staying in NH or did you go back to Columbia? As I am originally from California, ideally, I would love to go to the Kaiser Permanente CRNA program in California (excellent program and only 22K!), but I think my future is in NYC for at least 3 more years, and I figured I would try to progress in my career here in NY as fast as possible. I am terrified of the 150K in debt that I would be stuck with if I went to Columbia, but would be willing to pay the price for an excellent education. However, you seem to be really really really dissatisfied with your choice-- do you still feel this way? If you decided to go back for the anesthesia portion, how would you say the masters weighs in in comparison to the ETP portion? Is it better/worse/same? Why did you say you'd think you not enjoy it?
I'm also concerned about not finding a job after the first year, as I have always had a bit of difficulty in any interview -- I'm a bit soft spoken and on the shy side. Did ANYONE find a job in NY after the ETP portion?
Thanks in advance, and of course, I'd love to hear from anyone who has an opinion about the Columbia ETP Nurse Anesthesia program!

Hello there,

I am not allowed to PM either I found so here I go.

I did go back to Columbia, I started the Masters portion in Anesthesia this fall. And just like I said I knew I was not going to be impressed with the teaching of this portion either. I came back because I didn't want to risk giving up my spot and potentially not get into another program.

Lets just make sure we clear something up for everyone applying for Columbia, You are not getting a great education for the $150K price tag, you are getting a Name and a quick route to your desired job. I went to undergrad at a state university and I had a much better educational experience there.

Finding a job was hard, one person found a job at a good hospital, but she had family that worked there. The other two who stayed in the city worked at a small downtown hospital and the bronx. There was a lot of lying involved in getting that ICU job, they don't want to hear you are only going to be there for 1 year and then plan on returning to school. They have to put in a significant amount of training into you and they want a return. So it was a secret for the whole interview process, and every interview asked me where I saw myself in 2 years etc. Columbia Does NOT help you find a job! You are on your own to do the leg work, get the interviews and hopefully find a job that has a great orientation program since you will most likely feel incompetent after the ETP portion.

About the anesthesia portion....I have some good teachers and some not so good. I find myself teaching myself alot of the time. This is difficult and many of us are frustrated. But I knew this was going to be the case when I came back so I was prepared. However it doesn't make learning the material any easier. I will leave it at that and hopefully you will be able to PM soon and I would be willing to talk to you over the phone so I could be more specific.

KHNurse2B · Nov 9, 2009

ICU08,

Yikes! That sounds kind of awful and scary. I am trying to figure out my other options, but am applying to Columbia in the meantime. I am going to post the required 15 posts so I can PM you and would definitely be interested in communicating more in detail! Thank you for offering.