Columbia University ETP 2008

SteveNNP, MSN, NP · May 19, 2008

And SteveRN21: Way to not understand sample size! Even though you know 3 people who got NLERP, the majority of people who apply for it don't get it.

Um.... way to go! Insulting a moderator will always make things better!

No, seriously. I just finished Dr C's rather rigorous Assessing Clinical Evidence, so I am well aware of sample sizes and power analyses.

I never made it sound like a research study. I just stated that of the three people I work with that applied for it, all three got it. I didn't encourage anyone to base their financial decisionmaking around the experience of those three people.

I'm just saying that it's "free" money, taxed or not. As long as one's willing to work in a critical shortage facility.

I hear you about finding a job as an RN. While the job market is pretty rosy right now, and anyone with an RN license can pretty much get a job, it comes down to quality of education. While real-world experience is the real teacher, The caliber of my instructors as well as of my MSN and DNP classmates has been very high. I have access to some of the best clinical sites in the area, and the Columbia name to back me up. It isn't all about getting a job. It's being as prepared as possible for that job. And as far as ETP programs go, Columbia has a pretty darn good one. I can say that not having done an ETP or any type of undergrad nursing training at CU.

You've offered some good advice. Let's keep the personal attacks out of this forum.....

Thanks everyone.

Miss Mab · May 19, 2008

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You cannot dispute the math, you are paying $115,000 - $120,000 for a degree you could get elsewhere for $20,000, and in exchange you get no better education or enhanced career opportunities.
I don't have to argue about this. You will agree with me in 2 - 3 years when you have to come up with $1000 to $1300 a month to send to Sallie Mae.
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Preach on, Columbiaetp04!

lol

I completely understand and agree with your sentiments. I also, prior to acceptance deadline dates, attempted to share some like-minded info to some of the more higher price-tagged direct entry crowd. They weren't havin' it!

Meh...whatever.

There just is a reality to the nursing profession(RN and inclusive of NP) that folks coming from other disciplines simply won't or maybe even can't see until they are out there experiencing it for themselves. You'll also notice that many of these students are coming directly(and I mean immediately directly in some cases) from their undergrad institutions and so that name cache still holds something for them in that regard, I think. Plus, let's face it, what I thought I knew at 22, etc......

While it's a shame that people who speak from actual experience(you being an actual ETP'er and me being a "name" school direct entry grad--though I quit after the ABSN portion because I couldn't fathom choosing a specialty without much real exposure--'nother thread) are responded to w/such knee-jerk defensiveness, it is what is and I realized long ago that while my wisdom has been more than borne out by experience, like everything else, some people just need to learn the hard way. :)

To you and me, the 20k for an equivalent outcome as you would spending 115k, seems a fairly basic no brainer. There are just those who, in their heart of hearts, believe that the 'doing' of it will be worth that enormous monetary difference.

And to them I wish and hope for the best.

Best to all!

PS. I hope everyone avoids the private loans as much as possible. Though I'm sure lots of you know this, some won't, so do be aware that private lenders of student loans can raise interest rates AS HIGH AS THEY WANT (like credit cards) and these loans can NEVER be dismissed as in bankruptcy or any other unfortunate financial catastrophe...

columbiaetp04 · May 19, 2008

You know that is an important point!

If you declare bankruptcy student loans cannot be dismissed. The only way student loans can be dismissed is if you 1) Die or 2) Have an illness or injury which prevents you from working.

Sallie Mae Signature Loans (which are private) are variable rate, and while interst rates are low now, in the past 5 years there was a point where the Sallie Mae Signature Loan APR approached 11%.

And SteveRN21: I am not knocking NLERP, it's just reality that most people won't be accepted for a NLERP award. (In fact 94% of applicants were denied last year).

PsychMaven · May 19, 2008

:no: waa, waa, waaa...consider making your own thread to take your unwanted advice and relentless complaining elsewhere. you are not helpful and i am thoroughly bored of hearing the same tired and obvious (at least to most of us) message over and over. i love it when people are so clearly unwanted and yet persist regardless...sad really.

Asherah, BSN, RN · May 19, 2008

waa, waa, waaa...consider making your own thread to take your unwanted advice and relentless complaining elsewhere. you are not helpful and i am thoroughly bored of hearing the same tired and obvious (at least to most of us) message over and over. i love it when people are so clearly unwanted and yet persist regardless...sad really.

:rolleyes: Too late for that suggestion, see: https://allnurses.com/forums/f34/wrong-any-school-charge-90-000-pre-nclex-one-year-curriculum-282920.html

columbiaetp04 · May 19, 2008

Alexandria8

I have been curteous in all my posts, and I don't appreciate the personal attacks.

You lack the maturity to keep this to a discussion about the facts.

Let me leave you with this fact. The majority of ETPers I went to Columbia with now regret their decision to go. Their regret started when the bills from Sallie Mae came.

Congratulations on joining the ranks of the working poor.:bowingpur

Asherah, BSN, RN · May 19, 2008

Their regret started when the bills from Sallie Mae came.

I suppose from your statement, my one sincere question is, I'm unsure as to how surprising it can be for anyone to sign promissory notes and not be aware of how much they will be paying per month. Or is it purely a disconnect between an outrageous salary expectation and the loan balances that one will have to pay?

I've certainly run the numbers, its very easy these days to determine what a monthly payment will be based on 'n' number of interest rate scenarios (figuring in increases), as well as different repayment timeframes. However my financial plan is to have my loan(s) paid off in 5 years, through a combination of frugal living and extra work.

I find it impossible to believe that so many people are surprised by what they will be committing to pay. :confused:

columbiaetp04 · May 19, 2008

Asherah,

Congratulations on financial planning.

There are some general facts about signature and unsubsidized loans that people don't understand:

Capitalized interest - Your unsubsidized federal and sallie mae loans start accruing interest the first day the funds are released. So in my case, an additional $9000 or so was tacked on before I finished my first year. By the time I had earned a master's an additional $15000 or so was added on to my balance, a process called capitalization.

Variable rates - Sallie Mae Signature Loans have variable rates. WHile I was in nursing school the Signature APR approached 11%. After nursing school it dropped to 7 1/2%, so that first year after nursing school an additional $10000 or so was added to my balance.

Payment are applied to your interest first - For example my first student loan payment was about $1200. Only $111 was applied to the principal loan balance, the rest was applied to interest. So your principal loan balance is whittled down very slowly. Meanwhile interest continues to accrue.

As a general rule, debt service on uncollaterialized loans (ie loans not backed up by collateral like credit cards, student loans and car loans, this means mortgages are excluded) cannot exceed approximately 20% of your take home pay, before you are put in with the poor credit risk crowd. Assuming about $50,000 a year in take home pay is average for NPs that leaves you with $10,000 you can spend on uncollaterialized loans. You need more than $10,000 to make your columbia student loan payments. The end result is you are likely to be denied car loans and mortgages, and if you are given such loans they will be at a much higher interest rate than you would have if you had good credit.

I have been making large payments for several years now and my balance has only gone down by $3000.

Another way to look at it is this: you may have borrowed $115,000, but your payments to retire the loan will add up to about $150,000 - $160,000.

Sincerely,

Columbia ETP '04

Asherah, BSN, RN · May 19, 2008

Thanks for posting that, I'm sure a few folks did indeed learn exactly how the process works. I'm hoping that for those of us who can (and do plan on working) while in school can at least work on paying that interest while in their respective programs to avoid or minimize interest capitalization.

columbiaetp04 · May 20, 2008

Asherah:

The real shock people get is that after sending large payments in for several months, their balance does not go down by very much.

People are usually astounded by how fast compounding interest will boost the balance of a loan. If you are unable to take bites out of your principal balance every month, you are spinning your wheels.

You know I did an interesting thing. I went to Bankrate.com and used their online amortization calculator. I put in the following data:

Beginning loan balance: $115,000

Interest Rate: $5.0% (Your federal loans will be less, and your signature loan will be more than 5.0%, and sometimes much more)

Years to pay off balance: 15

Results: Total interest paid: $ 48,694.28

Total amount of monthly payments: $163,694.28

Now remember you have to earn $180,000 - $200,000 to get $163,694.28 after taxes, at the very least.

Now keep in mind that the ETP '08 class is going to have to pay a lot more tuition than 115 large I had to pay.

PsychMaven · May 20, 2008

you seriously don't seem to get it. the reason i am not "keeping to the facts" is because your input is not welcome, the last thing i want to do is further engage this bs. take your pearls of financial wisdom to the designated thread where people want to discuss the glaringly obvious financial issues surrounding ivy league educations. enough, honestly.

PsychMaven · May 20, 2008

if we are going to discuss finances, i don't know about anyone else, but i'd much rather talk salaries :wink2: There was a lot of good info. in this article and a promising number for NYC salaries in particular.... http://www.advancefornp.com/Sharedresources/advanceforNP/Resources/DownloadableResources/NP_2007SalarySurvey.pdf