Nurses' Unions

Gromit · Apr 13, 2007

How corrupt are the hospitals who view patients as money makers, and nurses as slaves?

Well, I don't know what to say about the 'nurses as slaves' bit except that I was unaware that slaves got paid -at least not traditionally -nor that slaves had the option of leaving for a competing job. But as for the other part, I'll say that if a hospital DOESN'T see patients as a money maker, you will see them fail and close their doors.

Like it or not, healthcare is a business. Unless the facility truly runs on charity alone, its GOT to run like a business -and a business doesn't stay in business by giving away their product and refusing to collect on services rendered.

I don't work for free.

Do you?

HM2VikingRN, RN · Apr 15, 2007

what all this amounts to is a triumph of corporate and financial power, and of the conservative economics that shores it up. once upon a time, american prosperity actually benefited americans. from 1947 through 1973, productivity in the united states rose by 104 percent, and median family income rose by an identical 104 percent. those were also the only years of real union power in the united states, years in which one-quarter of the workforce, and in some years one-third, was unionized. apparently, this level of worker power and mass prosperity proved intolerable to our financial elite and their political flunkies. since the '70s, american business has generally done its damnedest to keep its workers down. employers routinely opted to pay the negligible penalties for violating the national labor relations act rather than permit its employees to join unions. in 1969, according the national labor relations board, the number of employees who'd suffered illegal retaliation for exercising their right to join or maintain a union was just over 6,000; by 2005, that number had risen to 31,358. according to a study out this january from the center for economic and policy research, fully one in five activists on unionization campaigns are illegally fired. and as worker power declines, so do living standards. secure retirement pensions are history; employer-provided health benefits are going fast.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=viewweb&articleid=12631

food for thought......

Sherwood · Apr 25, 2007

In the US, nursing unions serve two purposes; as a palliative measure to give the appearance of improving a festering underlying occupational disfunction within a facility, and in some places as a place for meek employees to "sign up" for the team-based approach of extorting benefits from an employer when the employee is too afraid or uninformed to negotiate their own.
I refuse to work at a union shop because it indicates systemic problems that have not been repaired, but have rather been "spackled over" by a union, and because a union will deny me the right and privilege to negotiate my own compensation based on my own merits and ambition.

We have got to talk.........You are so right on!

Thank you!

Sherwood

HM2VikingRN, RN · Apr 25, 2007

We have got to talk.........You are so right on!
Thank you!
Sherwood

In other words, a progressive is someone who is idealistic enough to believe that things can be better and pragmatic enough to get it done.

Suedern · Apr 27, 2007

being a member of seiu in las vegas through 4 contracts has taught me a lesson. you get nothing if you do nothing. wether you support your fellow coworker quietly, or are out there on a picket line, or being captian or steward, or loosing your job to protect your fellow coworkers and patients by standing up for what is right. it's those people who make a difference in the lives of thousands of workers, their families and their patients. where are the nonunion people? i don't see you making a difference in the lives of your fellow coworkers, families and patients.

your the ones who are probably recieving that merit raise because you supported management in trying to intimidate your fellow coworkers. but god forbid you stand up for what is right. wether its having better and safer care for your patients or seeing your fellow coworker who is as good as you, if not better, get the same raise you did? merit raise? give me a break! i saw pennies for raises.

i saw my halfway decent hmo change numerous times, to the point that most doctor refuses to accept it. but atleast those who choose to stay with that free hmo (that the nurses of seiu have fought so hard to get) should know that atleast without those nurses who came forward and fought for it,you would still be paying, if not more and getting less. maybe with a more visible show of support, those who pay for so much with their ppo's, we can also see some relief in our monthly copays.

but that's not all. name any article in any hospital/union contract and you'll see improvements through out. from floating policies that float nurse to any floor without consideration for experiance, to unsafe staffing, to just having the right to be in the union. who do you think was behind the kentucky river legislation? do you think they were looking out for your best interest? i don't think so!

sit in on any bargaining and see who is looking out for the best interest of everyone concerned. sure as #@!$% isn't the employer!

so in response to a comment i have heard in the past, about "what has the union done for me?" first,they have no first hand knowledge because the have never done anything for or with the nurses that make their union, so they have no right to disparage those nurses who make their place of employment a safer and better place to work. second, if you don't like your raise or retro or better everything, return it to the employer and ask for that merit raise! oh, and sit on those patient care committees beside the employer and not make it better for the patients.

Sheri257 · Apr 27, 2007

And spacenurse...I can only imagine the uproar if Unions were subject to the same scrutiny that hospitals are exposed to, and if Unions were expected to operate with razor thin profit margins under the same level of scrutiny. As it stands, unions have a far greater profit margin (considering they really offer very little), compared to the hospitals they exploit.

Razor thin hospital profit margins? Really?

Just as an example ... RN's are unionized at 25 Catholic Healthcare West hospitals in California.

Yet net income was up $90 million in 2006 for a total of $438 million. It sure doesn't look like razor thin profit margins to me ...

http://www.chwhealth.org/stellent/groups/public/@xinternet_con_sys/documents/webcontent/135150.pdf

I see you're from Georgia where RN's make $24 an hour, on average. In my current California union job, I'm making $45 an hour.

As far as I'm concerned, unions can profit as much as they want because they're certainly delivering on my behalf.

Simplepleasures · Apr 27, 2007

Who would you place your trust in to see to it that you are treated fairly, the CEO of the corporation or the Union? Simple really.

allnurses Guide · Apr 27, 2007

Who would you place your trust in to see to it that you are treated fairly, the CEO of the corporation or the Union? Simple really.

It would depend on the CEO. Not fair to judge all CEO's as if they were wicked money-hungry anti-nurse meanies.

We have a new CEO - I like her. So far. She has good ideas for our small rural hospital which is hemorrhaging $$. Her last job in Montana was as a CEO and she turned that hospital around.

When one of the docs interviewed her, he asked her how to retain nurses here. She said "pay them more".

Granted it has only been a month or so . . . . . I'm not wearing blinders. But still, I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt.

As to unions, I just disagree on principle. I am a professional nurse and can stand up for myself.

The last time a union came up here to recruit, it was SEIU . . . .they showed up looking like they belonged to the mafia and had on big diamond rings (union dues?) . . . and we are a rural farming/logging community. We all had a giggle over that. The nurses voted the union down.

steph

Suedern · Apr 27, 2007

any person with commen since know that their are bad companies and good companies. bad ones put money before adequate care, safe care, and and keeping their employees work enviroment a safe and healthy place to work. and of course good companies actually make a profit because of less turn over, and shorter stays, and a mirad of other reasons mentioned throughout these threads and articles.

i would still like to see how those staunch nonunion supporters have helped make their work enviroment a better place to work. your the ones that won't stand up to management and risk your job and put you foot down and say this is not safe, not right. aren't you the ones with your masters and doctorates that could lay out the research and at least try to convince them. no, because your the one who probably moved up in your positon because of merit. or your that charge or unit director who stands by and sees those "slaves" working their tails off, without breaks, bathroom time, or lunch, and will turn your head when you see their ship sinking. and will turn around and say to that nurse, "if you told me, i would have helped you", or "you should have asked for help". what? you mean those people can't tell when their nurses aren't sinking. road trips to radiology, both patients intubated, both patients on vasopressors and 15 min. vitals, both with diarrhea, both with biligernt families, poor iv access, meds not delivered timely and having to go down how many floors to the basement. anything else? of course their is.

i'de also like to see that staunch nonunion member out their fighting for better legislation for better and safer care. if more of you stood up for what was right for every patient out there, you probably would not need unions.

but, as you see in hospitals trying to decert unions(i say hospitals, because what nurse actually would, in good conscence start one?), the majority of nurses who don't sign the decerts probably know deep down the the union has made care better for them and their patients.

what good chg nurse or unit director who has treated their workers in the way management tells them too,can actually sleep at night?

in response to the big diamonds that the seiu wear. what? are you a jeweler? you probably couldn't tell the difference between a rock and a piece of glass. that's the kind of talk that sound very uneducated, or silly union busting talk.

HM2VikingRN, RN · Apr 28, 2007

any person with commen since know that their are bad companies and good companies. bad ones put money before adequate care, safe care, and and keeping their employees work enviroment a safe and healthy place to work. and of course good companies actually make a profit because of less turn over, and shorter stays, and a mirad of other reasons mentioned throughout these threads and articles.
i would still like to see how those staunch nonunion supporters have helped make their work enviroment a better place to work. your the ones that won't stand up to management and risk your job and put you foot down and say this is not safe, not right. aren't you the ones with your masters and doctorates that could lay out the research and at least try to convince them. no, because your the one who probably moved up in your positon because of merit. or your that charge or unit director who stands by and sees those "slaves" working their tails off, without breaks, bathroom time, or lunch, and will turn your head when you see their ship sinking. and will turn around and say to that nurse, "if you told me, i would have helped you", or "you should have asked for help". what? you mean those people can't tell when their nurses aren't sinking. road trips to radiology, both patients intubated, both patients on vasopressors and 15 min. vitals, both with diarrhea, both with biligernt families, poor iv access, meds not delivered timely and having to go down how many floors to the basement. anything else? of course their is.
i'de also like to see that staunch nonunion member out their fighting for better legislation for better and safer care. if more of you stood up for what was right for every patient out there, you probably would not need unions.
but, as you see in hospitals trying to decert unions(i say hospitals, because what nurse actually would, in good conscence start one?), the majority of nurses who don't sign the decerts probably know deep down the the union has made care better for them and their patients.
what good chg nurse or unit director who has treated their workers in the way management tells them too,can actually sleep at night?
in response to the big diamonds that the seiu wear. what? are you a jeweler? you probably couldn't tell the difference between a rock and a piece of glass. that's the kind of talk that sound very uneducated, or silly union busting talk.

:yeahthat: :bow: :cool: :nurse:

all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. decertify=stupid as far as i am concerned.

allnurses Guide · Apr 28, 2007

any person with commen since know that their are bad companies and good companies. bad ones put money before adequate care, safe care, and and keeping their employees work enviroment a safe and healthy place to work. and of course good companies actually make a profit because of less turn over, and shorter stays, and a mirad of other reasons mentioned throughout these threads and articles.
i would still like to see how those staunch nonunion supporters have helped make their work enviroment a better place to work. your the ones that won't stand up to management and risk your job and put you foot down and say this is not safe, not right. aren't you the ones with your masters and doctorates that could lay out the research and at least try to convince them. no, because your the one who probably moved up in your positon because of merit. or your that charge or unit director who stands by and sees those "slaves" working their tails off, without breaks, bathroom time, or lunch, and will turn your head when you see their ship sinking. and will turn around and say to that nurse, "if you told me, i would have helped you", or "you should have asked for help". what? you mean those people can't tell when their nurses aren't sinking. road trips to radiology, both patients intubated, both patients on vasopressors and 15 min. vitals, both with diarrhea, both with biligernt families, poor iv access, meds not delivered timely and having to go down how many floors to the basement. anything else? of course their is.
i'de also like to see that staunch nonunion member out their fighting for better legislation for better and safer care. if more of you stood up for what was right for every patient out there, you probably would not need unions.
but, as you see in hospitals trying to decert unions(i say hospitals, because what nurse actually would, in good conscence start one?), the majority of nurses who don't sign the decerts probably know deep down the the union has made care better for them and their patients.
what good chg nurse or unit director who has treated their workers in the way management tells them too,can actually sleep at night?
in response to the big diamonds that the seiu wear. what? are you a jeweler? you probably couldn't tell the difference between a rock and a piece of glass. that's the kind of talk that sound very uneducated, or silly union busting talk.

wow. what a judgmental bunch of crock.

i do make my work environment a better and safer place. i'm not afraid of management - that is just silly. i can get a job anywhere - i'm not the type to bend over and grab my ankles for anyone.

as to the comment about the union reps . . . it doesn't matter whether the diamond rings were real or not. you missed my point completely. these union reps came to a rural community made up of hardworking people and they dressed like someone from a big city - they had on suits that looked like the mafia and wore rings with big "rocks". it certainly made us think about where exactly they got the money for those big rings. it certainly didn't make a good impression - they were trying to woo us and it backfired.

calling people stupid for having a different opinion is not conducive to a good conversation.

i'm not a union buster - if the majority of nurses voted one in - so be it. i believe in letting the majority have what they want. i'd just go elsewhere. simple.

steph

HM2VikingRN, RN · Apr 29, 2007

I'm not a union buster - if the majority of nurses voted one in - so be it. I believe in letting the majority have what they want. I'd just go elsewhere. Simple.
steph

Why throw away working relationships if your fellow employees decide to bargain collectively ON YOUR BEHALF?