Anesthesologist and CRNA collaboration

Specialties CRNA

Published

i've been a lurker on this board for about a year now; not particularly active in participation, but more active in soaking up knowledge from others as i start my nursing career.

i'm interested in a career as a crna and it was the primary reason for pursuing my bsn, a second degree for me. over time i've read as much as possible about the trade, shadowed a number of crna's doing anything from epidurals at the bedside to or cases and have found it to be an excellent fit for what i do well. recently i made the mistake of reading posts on studentdoctor.net in the anesthesiology forum (gasforums.net) and find myself visiting regularly. oops. talk about a downer. the venom spit at crna's is remarkable. it seems every chance they get to bash, lobby against, pad their own pockets, etc., they take it and exploit it. therein lies my reason for this thread.

those of you who have experience as a crna i'm hoping you can provide some insight as to the collaboration and attitudes between mda's and crna's. i suspect that overall it's pretty solid and it's only a very minor group of people who hate crna's as much as they seem to on that "other" board. part of what is tainting my view is that the asa has a huge thumb on anesthesia here in colorado, going so far as to name the governor himself in a lawsuit brought about in response to the medicare "opting out" issue, putting crna's on unequal footing, so to speak.

are crna's respected by mda's or is there a relative lack of respect but both sides ignore it? any other insight you can provide? thanks much for your help.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
While the debate of CRNAs/AAs/MDAs is all fine and well, I'm interested to hear responses that are pertinent to the original question. Thank you.

Cf. Post #5, this thread

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While the debate of CRNAs/AAs/MDAs is all fine and well, I'm interested to hear responses that are pertinent to the original question. Thank you.
Reading between the lines it seems that collaboration between the groups is fine so long and no one talks about the provervial elephant in the room. Everyone sees it, no one wants to talk about it, but when it's brought up they all have plenty to say about it.

Don't ask, don't tell I guess. That's what's been displayed here so far, unless others have experienced otherwise.

Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency.
In a nutshell!

MDAs have no problem whatsoever with CRNAs and AAs, so long as the underlings kiss the ring and make the money while the overlords eat donuts and watch CNBC in the lounge Lazeeboy.

!

hey deepz, in response to this, i also have to add that, during their shift, especially at post-induction and emergence, the anesthesiologists follow the ABCs of sustaining life... that's airway, bagel, coffee.. i sort of wouldn't mind that "responsibility"... :smokin:

Specializes in Anesthesia.

It's a power thing, Greg. The docs hold the hire-and-fire power in most departments; they attend the committee meetings, they glad-hand the administrators, while we stay hidden down the bowels of the OR (so to speak), hidden where we are most profitable. The best-kept secret in American healthcare. And that's no accident.

It's a power thing, Greg. The docs hold the hire-and-fire power in most departments; they attend the committee meetings, they glad-hand the administrators, while we stay hidden down the bowels of the OR (so to speak), hidden where we are most profitable. The best-kept secret in American healthcare. And that's no accident.

Please don't label me as a sellout for asking this question because I love what I'm training to become but, where exactly do we want the MDAs to be? If they are in our O.R. room all the time, we say they are controlling. If they kick it in the lounge and let us do our thing, we call them lazy. So where do we want them?

Please don't label me as a sellout for asking this question because I love what I'm training to become but, where exactly do we want the MDAs to be? If they are in our O.R. room all the time, we say they are controlling. If they kick it in the lounge and let us do our thing, we call them lazy. So where do we want them?

I know, it's a connundrum...I'd like them out of the legislative buildings where they're trying their hardest to control our practice. I want them to mind their own business and do what they're trained to do whether it's in the OR or with CRNAs/AAs.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
Please don't label me as a sellout for asking this question because I love what I'm training to become but, where exactly do we want the MDAs to be? If they are in our O.R. room all the time, we say they are controlling. If they kick it in the lounge and let us do our thing, we call them lazy. So where do we want them?

As soon to be SRNA this summer. I am kinda hoping that they will be like any other specialist.. doing their own thing with their own cases and ready to be consulted if needed. Maybe that is a little too much to ask for....

Please don't label me as a sellout for asking this question because I love what I'm training to become but, where exactly do we want the MDAs to be? If they are in our O.R. room all the time, we say they are controlling. If they kick it in the lounge and let us do our thing, we call them lazy. So where do we want them?

Can't we all just get along!? :1luvu:

Specializes in CCRN, ER, ACLSI, TNCCI.
Interesting statement here. You imply that their is no statistical difference between AA's who have to be supervised by an MD and CRNA's who can and do practice independently. Sounds to me like you just admitted the ASA argument stating CRNA's should be supervised is totally invalid! Is this what you meant?

Just a thought - if anyone was in the Chicago area this last year or so they heard about an issue in a dentists office. A young girl died after a procedure, from what can best be deciphered as diffusion hypoxia. Guess why that happened? Diffusion hypoxia should never kill anyone unless they are not being cared for properly. This was the case in the dentists office. The dentist did as you stated above and hired some girl of the street to be his "monitoring tech" and she killed the small girl. She did not do it maliciously, however when she was on the stand she did not know what anesthetic had been used, what a blood pressure cuff was, or even how to count respiratory rate. In other words the tech was probably a high school drop out IMO. This dentist has lost his license forever due to his following your line of thinking. Granted AA's will not do this, but it underscores the danger that path leads to........

Just a thought - if anyone was in the Chicago area this last year or so they heard about an issue in a dentists office. A young girl died after a procedure, from what can best be deciphered as diffusion hypoxia. Guess why that happened? Diffusion hypoxia should never kill anyone unless they are not being cared for properly. This was the case in the dentists office. The dentist did as you stated above and hired some girl of the street to be his "monitoring tech" and she killed the small girl. She did not do it maliciously, however when she was on the stand she did not know what anesthetic had been used, what a blood pressure cuff was, or even how to count respiratory rate. In other words the tech was probably a high school drop out IMO. This dentist has lost his license forever due to his following your line of thinking. Granted AA's will not do this, but it underscores the danger that path leads to........

You're comparing "some girl off the street" that "was probably a high school drop out" to the dangers of an AA with a master's degree in their field?

The collaboration between MD's and CRNA's, in my opinion, depends on the "culture" lived in the departement. At my hospital CRNA's and MD's work together and generally respect each other. The goal of a good collaboration is the patient's savety. Mostly, both professions see each other as partners with a common goal: best practice for the patient.

I speak of "mostly" because there are a few MD's that think CRNA's are only there to help and step in when it is convenient to them, but it is a very small number.

The question is not who has done what kind of schooling, but what kind of best practice for the patient are we providing.

Specializes in CTRU, Transplant, Oncology ER, CRNA.

I have several questions. First, paindoc - you sound like a MDA!!! What are you doing at ALLNURSES.COM. Are you married or involved with a nurse? You seems like you have so much anger towards CRNA's. Secondly do you personally employ trained monkey off the street. Is that why you try and justify "off the street" anesthesia employees. I don't know what hospital or practice you're involved with but if the hospital, or you and your partners allow RN's or techs to administer an "anesthetic" without formal training then you are endangering the lives of your patients. If you believe anyone off the street can be trained for any job you obviously minimize what CRNA's do in the OR.

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