Hey lovely nurses, so recently I just accepted a Per-diem job offer. They said there's a nurse on maternity leave, and would like me to cover her full time, 40 hours a week- if i want.
my Questions are :
1) is there a law saying that you can just hire per diem nurses and give them full time, without requiring to give employee benefits..???? is there such a thing as, if I work over a certain hours, they're mandated to give me some sort of benefits?????
2) do per diem nurses get a cap on the number of hours they can work per week.? and if you go over that cap, the employer has to offer benefits?
3) They also offered XX amount of dollar per hour. does that mean if i switch to full time or part time in the future, that hourly rate decreases?
4) how long does maternity leave last??
5) did you ever negotiate salary? what about your first job?
To the OP, I just wanted to add that accepting the full time maternity leave hours does depend on you. If you were looking for a full time position, but took the prn one because that is all they had to offer, and you made it clear in your interview that when a full time position opened you would like it...I think it's reasonable of the employer to expect that you will fill those hours. Unless, of course, in the meantime you have found another prn or part time job, and then you simply tell them what you can or cannot work.
Most of the prn people I work with only want part time, and don't need the insurance. They want the flexibility of not having to work if they don't want to; hence the prn status. If someone is out for vacation, illness, etc, our director will ask them if they want to pick up more hours, but they don't have to.
At my facility, prn earns about 8-10$ an hour more. But absolutely no benefits...no insurance, PTO, nothing. Of course they get paid overtime if they work more than 40/wk, and they do get holiday pay as well, but nothing else.
To the OP, I just wanted to add that accepting the full time maternity leave hours does depend on you. If you were looking for a full time position, but took the prn one because that is all they had to offer, and you made it clear in your interview that when a full time position opened you would like it...I think it's reasonable of the employer to expect that you will fill those hours. Unless, of course, in the meantime you have found another prn or part time job, and then you simply tell them what you can or cannot work.
I have to disagree with this. If hired for PRN, I don't think they employer can expect that the OP will fill a full-time position unless he/she wants to. They can't have it both ways by hiring for PRN and then expecting full-time work at the same time, even if the OP expressed a desire for full-time hours. In addition, the OP should be able to accept or refuse the additional hours on a shift by shift basis. The only obligation the OP has, once the PRN obligation is met, whatever that PRN obligation might be for the facility he/she will be working for, is to work whichever extra shifts he/she has agreed to work.
If the OP requested up to full time hours at the time of her hire, then I don't see how scheduling her for the maternity leave hours would be unreasonable.
Typically when one is hired prn, one provides the amount of hours one wishes to work. As I said, most people I know who work prn request 1-2 shifts per week, or 3 every other week. The few who want full time don't always get it, but if they expressed the desire for full time hours, I think they would be out of line complaining about it if they were scheduled for 36-40 hours.
I don't understand what you mean by "In addition, the OP should be able to accept or refuse the additional hours on a shift by shift basis. The only obligation the OP has, once the PRN obligation is met, whatever that PRN obligation might be for the facility he/she will be working for, is to work whichever extra shifts he/she has agreed to work." Every facility I have seen for prn (and I'll readily admit I don't have VAST experience, just a couple of facilities), the prn people are not "on call". They are on the schedule the same as everyone else. They just don't have agreed hours, ie the facility is not required to give them full time. They may very well work full time every week, but if census is low they are the first to go. Also, the prn nurse typically submits the hours and days they are available. If she said she's available for full time, and didn't specify which days (or said, give me anything), it's not unreasonable for the employer to expect her to be able to cover the maternity leave.
If the OP requested up to full time hours at the time of her hire, then I don't see how scheduling her for the maternity leave hours would be unreasonable.
Typically when one is hired prn, one provides the amount of hours one wishes to work. As I said, most people I know who work prn request 1-2 shifts per week, or 3 every other week. The few who want full time don't always get it, but if they expressed the desire for full time hours, I think they would be out of line complaining about it if they were scheduled for 36-40 hours.
I don't understand what you mean by "In addition, the OP should be able to accept or refuse the additional hours on a shift by shift basis. The only obligation the OP has, once the PRN obligation is met, whatever that PRN obligation might be for the facility he/she will be working for, is to work whichever extra shifts he/she has agreed to work." Every facility I have seen for prn (and I'll readily admit I don't have VAST experience, just a couple of facilities), the prn people are not "on call". They are on the schedule the same as everyone else. They just don't have agreed hours, ie the facility is not required to give them full time. They may very well work full time every week, but if census is low they are the first to go. Also, the prn nurse typically submits the hours and days they are available. If she said she's available for full time, and didn't specify which days (or said, give me anything), it's not unreasonable for the employer to expect her to be able to cover the maternity leave.
I didn't do a good job wording my post. I was trying to hurry, plus I found it challenging to explain this in writing. Anyway, I'll TRY to clarify what I meant.
It is only unreasonable for the employer to expect the OP to work the maternity leave hours if the OP doesn't agree to work all of those hours.
I don't have vast experience either, but when I worked PRN, the union contract spelled out how a PRN position worked. I had an obligation to schedule myself for 2 weekend shifts per month (not necessarily both on the same weekend) and any 2 holidays per year that I chose. That was the extent of my obligation to the hospital to stay employed. If I happened to be called off on one of my scheduled weekend shifts or holidays, it still counted toward fulfilling my obligation because it wasn't my fault if I was called off. Obviously I recognize that this type of requirement will vary from one facility to another, but that's what I meant about the OP having some kind of "PRN obligation" to fulfill.
Beyond the above stated requirements, I could give the nursing office a list of days that I was willing to work and they would schedule me for those days if there were openings, or, I could just wait to see if they called me in. The advantage to being called in was that I would get time and a half if I was called within 24 hours of the start of my shift. They usually fudged on that a lot and paid me the extra money even if they called me 2-3 days ahead of time.
The point here is that it was all up to me when I worked, assuming that there were shifts available on the days that I wanted to work. The one caveat to this was that once I agreed to be scheduled for a shift, whether it was one day or a few weeks ahead, I was obligated to work it unless they called me off. However, there was absolutely no expectation that I should work full-time hours when available, even though I, too, expressed a desire to work full-time prior to being hired. As a matter of fact, I had interviewed for a full-time position when I was offered the PRN spot.
Now, let's say that the OP is hired and working PRN, and tells her employer that she can work full-time every week on the next schedule, and her employer puts her on the schedule full-time, then I agree with you that she is obligated to work whatever she is scheduled and should not complain. However, if the OP, at any time, tells the employer ahead of a new schedule that she can only work 1 shift, 2 shifts, 5 shifts, or anything less than full-time on the next schedule, then her employer can have no expectation of the OP working full-time hours since that is not what she was hired for, regardless of having expressed a desire to work full-time prior to being hired.
I hope that made things a little more clear from my perspective.
Specializes in Hospice, corrections, psychiatry, rehab, LTC.
I once had a per diem job that gave me so many hours that everyone assumed I was full time. I got no benefits, but I was making $7 per hour more than they offered me to go full time. I told them that their benefits were decent. but they weren't worth a $14K per year pay cut. I went with another employer who made me a simultaneous offer.
The per diem money was good, as was the freedom. If I wanted to go on a vacation, I just told them not to put me on the schedule.
Working full time doesn't mean you have a full time position, you could still be per diem but choose to work that many hours.
At my hospital the PRN position pays 25% over the benefitted positions.
In general a prn position wouldn't be good for a new grad but because they obviously need you, you will probably get enough hours for you to gain experience. Hopefully you will get adequate orientation.
I once had a per diem job that gave me so many hours that everyone assumed I was full time. I got no benefits, but I was making $7 per hour more than they offered me to go full time. I told them that their benefits were decent. but they weren't worth a $14K per year pay cut. I went with another employer who made me a simultaneous offer.
The per diem money was good, as was the freedom. If I wanted to go on a vacation, I just told them not to put me on the schedule.
Yes! That IS the beauty of per diem, and can be ideal if one can get the number of desired or needed hours and has benefits through a spouse.
So after the discussed offer, she told me the hospital actually pays per diem and regular full time staff the same base rate..... HUH!! i always thought per diem is higher. i guess its not true to this hospital???
Apparently since i'm getting that Per diem rate, it will always stay that rate, even when i get into Full time.
BUT, the difference is--- when i get into Full time, I will get a chunk of money taken out each month in return for benefits.
iduno.... i'm in no position to argue though.. i guess I just got the wages of a full time person, but hired as per diem- works 40 hours a week, with zero benefits. *shrugs*
So after the discussed offer, she told me the hospital actually pays per diem and regular full time staff the same base rate..... HUH!! i always thought per diem is higher. i guess its not true to this hospital???
Apparently since i'm getting that Per diem rate, it will always stay that rate, even when i get into Full time.
BUT, the difference is--- when i get into Full time, I will get a chunk of money taken out each month in return for benefits.
iduno.... i'm in no position to argue though.. i guess I just got the wages of a full time person, but hired as per diem- works 40 hours a week, with zero benefits. *shrugs*
I'm having a hard time believing that you got the whole story on this. There were some details of my PRN job that I wasn't told initially and had to learn the hard way after getting screwed over. You should seek out other PRNs, especially those who have been around for awhile, to get the real scoop once you actually start.
The upside is that you have a job where you will gain valuable experience and get paid while doing it. You can always look around for something with benes while working at this one.
Specializes in CT stepdown, hospice, psych, ortho.
So after the discussed offer, she told me the hospital actually pays per diem and regular full time staff the same base rate..... HUH!! i always thought per diem is higher. i guess its not true to this hospital???
Apparently since i'm getting that Per diem rate, it will always stay that rate, even when i get into Full time.
BUT, the difference is--- when i get into Full time, I will get a chunk of money taken out each month in return for benefits.
iduno.... i'm in no position to argue though.. i guess I just got the wages of a full time person, but hired as per diem- works 40 hours a week, with zero benefits. *shrugs*
Like I said, I only got $1 an hour. It sucks but at least its a job. After your maternity fill in is over maybe they can cross train you for another unit. I don't know, they usually like "floats" to have more experience but if they're desperate for people and you already have your foot in the door it might work out. Getting the per diem rate when you go full time? Well thats a little unfair if you aren't getting regular raises. Get your experience and when you get a chance (in a few months)you can thank about maybe going somewhere that pays a little better or offers full time
BluegrassRN
1,188 Posts
To the OP, I just wanted to add that accepting the full time maternity leave hours does depend on you. If you were looking for a full time position, but took the prn one because that is all they had to offer, and you made it clear in your interview that when a full time position opened you would like it...I think it's reasonable of the employer to expect that you will fill those hours. Unless, of course, in the meantime you have found another prn or part time job, and then you simply tell them what you can or cannot work.
Most of the prn people I work with only want part time, and don't need the insurance. They want the flexibility of not having to work if they don't want to; hence the prn status. If someone is out for vacation, illness, etc, our director will ask them if they want to pick up more hours, but they don't have to.
At my facility, prn earns about 8-10$ an hour more. But absolutely no benefits...no insurance, PTO, nothing. Of course they get paid overtime if they work more than 40/wk, and they do get holiday pay as well, but nothing else.
Congrats on your new job!