Breastfeeding questions

BittyBabyGrower, MSN, RN · Feb 19, 2005

In regards to the preemies or the bigger kids that are in our unit....we promote BFing, but we also do give bottles. We will fingerfeed a larger kid, but no cup or syringe feeds are done. We have had the occas. parent that wants an IV or NG instead of a bottle and our docs won't do it. Why on earth would you want to have your kid stuck over and over for an IV instead of just supplementing? And those big bubba babies pull those ng's out and cry and scream and we have to put them back in. More trouble than giving a bottle.

We do give all babies pacifiers for comfort. We do inform the parents why we do this, esp in a big NPO kiddo.

As for the older kid nursing...not for me. I was ready to stop at one year and have my self to myself LOL If other people do it longer, it doesn't affect me.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 19, 2005

I would like to remind people that while this conversation has been relatively nice, when you talk about how terrible it is that people nurse beyond a year, please remember that there are several of us who are extending nursing and alluding that we are sexually abusing our children is not appropriate, IMO.

No one starts nursing a 2 or 3 year old. It happens gradually, day by day. You look at your child when they are 1yr 1d old and realize that there isn't that much difference between them now and last week. It seems silly and stupid to stop nursing just for some arbitrary cut-off, when your child is still benefitting.

Breastfeeding past a year is about as sexual as changing diapers past a year. While I tolerate and can enjoy the reconnection with my daughter after I've been in classes all day, it is in no way sexual in the least. I actually struggle to think of anything that puts me FURTHER from thoughts of sex (except maybe changing diapers) :rotfl:

As for bottlefeeding at that age, there are many benefits to nursing, but they do not extend to bottlefeeding. Bottlefeeding does not promote proper mouth and jaw development, it does not provide immunological support, it does not provide the same emotional benefits and has an increased risk of dental caries that does not exist for nursing.

NoCrumping · Feb 19, 2005

You seem to think it is just LLL who thinks that nursing should be past a year, but it isn't. It's common in countries other than US/Canada/UK/Oz, mainly because we're the ones who have the weird sexual hangups.
The World Health Organization recommends breastfeeding for AT LEAST 2 years. American Association of Family Practitioners recommends breastfeeding for AT LEAST 2 years. CDC also recommends AT LEAST 2 years. AAP is still behind the times at says AT LEAST one year, as well as other groups, but all of them qualify that it should continue as long as mother and child are both amenable.
"should continue as long as mother and child are both ammenable"... okaaaay, so, NOW you are saying, it can be NEVER ENDING? So, if the child still wants to at 8, and probly will since he/she was never WEANED, then that is "natural" and "recommended"?????????????????????:uhoh21:
And, just to clarify, I am not saying it is gross to breastfeed past a year. A year and a half, and even 2 years is reasonable. But when your going on 3 years, and dont even THINK that you should stop , and have the idea that you can go as long as you and the child want to..... ?????? I cant imagine. And the LLL and CDC are not going to give a specified "cut-off" time, because, well that would be dangerous.And then they would have a whole lot of angry "extended breastfeeders" telling them that they can do whatever they want with their body, and they dont want that. Sometimes breastfeeding doesnt work out, and/or moms give up. And some people just want to BF for 3,6,9 months, and thats ok too.....By that time, the baby got alot of benefit out of the immunological factor of it, and can go on to be a healthy toddler. They dont want people starving babies because their mission statement says to stop at 2 years. I guess they leave it to the mom to know that, when her child no longer needs nourishment, a child who is 3-5 years old who still suckles moms breast is JUST NOT RIGHT. And to come back with a comment that "its not just for nourishment" well, that is EVEN MORE gross.:deadhorse Enough. I am just as disturbed to hear someone breastfeeds their child at ages 3-5, as you are to HEAR that someone is disturbed about it.

Ms.Hobbes · Feb 19, 2005

No Crumping- I don't think lil peanut meant that as long as both child and mother are agreeable to it they will breast feed till they are 8. Most toddlers wean between 2 and 4 and to those parents it is a part of parenting that child for them. Children of parents that nursed them into their toddler years grow up to be happy well adjusted people. There are lots of benefits to nursing your child into the toddler years if you so choose to do that. To say that it is "Gross", obviously you never nursed your child for that long and two you haven't researched all the evidence that supports nursing toddlers. No where has anyone indicated nursing an eight year old, as I said before most toddlers wean between the age of two and four. There is also lots of literature on how toddlers wean. We should never be hasty to judge anyone, especially in the nursing profession.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 19, 2005

Yes Ms.Hobbes, exactly. I did not force my child to go from 10-12 nursings a day as she did as a newborn to the current 2 a day she usually does now (3 if I'm actually home during her nap and there when she goes to sleep) It's a natural progression, as they get older, they have less and less of a need to suck, for some kids it is earlier, and for some it is later. If nursing is going on until the child is 7 or 8, that would indicate some sort of mental issue with the child to still want to continue. A mentally retarded child may want to nurse longer than the average, because mentally, they are much younger than their physical age, but most typical children in typical situations will wean themselves between 2-4. And moms do get a say in it. My daughter is old enough to understand that sometimes I'm too tired or there's a reason she can't nurse, and I'll tell her that her monkies are sleeping. It depends on her mood how well she'll accept that answer :chuckle

When exactly is the magic age when it becomes "gross"? What is it about that time that makes it "gross" and two days prior to that date it is fine? Is it gross to snuggle with your child? You snuggle with your husband and that can lead to sex. Is it gross to kiss your child? You kiss your husband and that is a sexual activity. Is it gross to bathe or diaper your child? (aside from the poop factor ) You are touching their genitals, and genital touching among adults is sexual activity.

My guess your reaction will be: "It's different, I'm not thinking about sex when I {kiss, diaper, bathe, snuggle} my child. It's just me being a mom and doing my job as a mom. That isn't inherently sexual." The same holds true for nursing. Sex is not on your mind at when you are nursing. Your child doesn't think it is dirty or sexual they have been nursing since they were born and it's not any different for them, psychologically and emotionally than it was when they were a newborn, except maybe they value it more because they have learned that you are there for them.

And by the time you have a nursing toddler, it is not really about nutrition. They get some nutritional support, but the immunological and psychological benefits outweigh the nutritional at that age. Nursing toddlers eat, just like other kids do.

You think it is "just not right", but that is your misinformation and ignorance on this topic shining through. I'm not disturbed to hear that you have these feelings, they're sadly common in the united states. We are so obsessed with sex and breasts that people don't blink an eye to see a woman in a triangle bikini top, but if a woman dares to BF discreetly, it's disgusting and horrible to some. It just shows how messed up our society is.

allnurses Guide · Feb 19, 2005

As as been stated by Ms. Hobbes and Lil Peanut, none of us are saying breastfeed until your child is 8 years old, so that is unfair.

Calling us gross for breastfeeding our children into toddlerhood is meanspiritied.

We are not telling you that everyone should do this. We are a minority. But there is nothing wrong with it either, for all the reasons already mentioned.

My kids are 22 years old, 20 years old, 15 years old and 3 1/2 years old and none of them have any weird sexual hang-ups because I breastfed them.

When I was in high school, I was at my boyfriend's house. His sister had a friend from high school come by to visit with their newborn. They only stayed a few minutes though because the baby needed to nurse. When she left I asked why she couldn't have just stayed and nursed discreetly and continued the visit. My bf's father roared "I don't want my boys to see that!". (There were 3 high school aged boys home). Shortly thereafter the Dallas Cowboy football game came on and as the cheerleaders came on the screen the father yelled to his boys "hey, come take a look at the hooters on these gals".

It was ok to see breasts as sex objects but woe to the teenage boy who had to be in the same room with a nursing mom.

That is the attitude that I find gross.

steph

deegale · Feb 19, 2005

Honestly, for me personally after 1-2 yrs of breastfeeding I want my body back I breastfed my oldest for about 15mo but at a year i started weaning it took about 3mo I didn't want to stop ubruptly. I remember when I was in girlscouts I think I was about 10 my troop leader would nurse her 4 yr old when he asked her to and I remember thinking this is weird. I never knew any difference or had any society formed prejudgements about it. Personally I never really Knew anyone who was breastfed I was the youngest and my mother never breastfed us. I don't think it has anything to do with anything sexual I just think I guess it all boils down to preference. bf that long is just not for me. It's great to breastfeed if you can a lot of people choose not to. Maybe this is do to a lack of education during pregnancy about bf I was never even offered to see a lactation specialist any of the three times I was in having my kids, would have been nice with my first one because I hadn't a clue but I figured it out on my own. A few weeks after I had my youngest a friend of mines daughter had a baby (only 16) :crying2: but she wanted to try to breastfeed the nurse brought her in a hosp pump showed her how to turn it on and that was all the education she got, she nursed for about a week and gave up.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 19, 2005

It's seen as weird because women who nurse past the first year don't do so in public anymore. Some of it is to avoid ignorant people like NoCrumping, some of it is just because a toddler doesn't nurse as much and there's not the same urgency to nurse everywhere as you do with a newborn. If you go back a couple of decades, nursing in and of itself was seen as weird or odd.

allnurses Guide · Feb 19, 2005

It's seen as weird because women who nurse past the first year don't do so in public anymore. Some of it is to avoid ignorant people like NoCrumping, some of it is just because a toddler doesn't nurse as much and there's not the same urgency to nurse everywhere as you do with a newborn. If you go back a couple of decades, nursing in and of itself was seen as weird or odd.

That is very true . .. my mom started having her kids in the late 1950's and the thinking then was the formula was better for babies than breastmilk and mothers were discouraged from breastfeeding. I have my baby book which recommended started solid foods at 4 months, and not just rice cereal but everything. I wonder how many food allergies started this way?

steph

NoCrumping · Feb 19, 2005

It's seen as weird because women who nurse past the first year don't do so in public anymore. Some of it is to avoid ignorant people like NoCrumping, some of it is just because a toddler doesn't nurse as much and there's not the same urgency to nurse everywhere as you do with a newborn. If you go back a couple of decades, nursing in and of itself was seen as weird or odd.

LIlpeanut: I AM NOT IGNORANT.I JUST HAVE MY OWN VIEW ON THE SUBJECT, OR IS THAT NOT ACCECPTABLE TO YOU, SINCE IT IS NOT THE SAME AS YOURS? 'IGNORANT' IMPLIES LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, THAT IS NOT THE CASE WITH ME. YOU MIGHT WANT TO USE THE TERM 'INTOLERANT'. (OF BREASTFEEDING A KID 3-5 YRS OLD)

Marymoomoo · Feb 19, 2005

We should never be hasty to judge anyone, especially in the nursing profession.

Exactly!

I was just thinking to myself that whether we want them to or not,sometimes our feelings and biases to shine through in patient care. Educating ourselves about the differences in those around us may help us to be able to overlook someone elses choices,even if it is not a choice we would would make for ourselves,our own families. :)

To those of you that think breastfeeding past the age of two is bordering on sick,I hope you will read the info at the links others have posted. Also,the AAP *just* came out with new recommendations for breastfeeding within the past two weeks. Below is a quote from their new policy.

"# Increased duration of breastfeeding confers significant health and developmental benefits for the child and the mother, especially in delaying return of fertility (thereby promoting optimal intervals between births).196

# There is no upper limit to the duration of breastfeeding and no evidence of psychologic or developmental harm from breastfeeding into the third year of life or longer."

You can read the full text here:

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/2/496

I would HIGHLY recommend reading the text if you work with breastfeeding mothers. There are alot of changes from the last bf policy by the AAP,and there is some great info and studies cited within the policy that you might find helpful,as well.

From reading this thread,I've noticed that there seems to be some confusion over colostrum. I recommend the following links for this information:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/milkproduction.html

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/milkproduction-faq.html

http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/colostrum.html

http://breastfeed.com/resources/articles/colostrum.htm

Several things to keep in mind:

*What goes in must come out! (If it's coming out,it's going in. Watch baby's OUTPUT. Breasts don't have ounce markers ,so output is one of the best ways of telling whether or not baby is getting enough).

*If the output isn't there,work on latch on and positioning.

*If there appears to be a problem with milk transfer-get help! Don't wait.

*The #1 rule is: FEED THE BABY! If there appears to be a problem with latch/suck/supply/ect.,feed the baby. Whether it is ebm or abm,feed the baby!

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 19, 2005

You have your opinions on the subject that are not based on fact, which to me, speaks of a lack of education on the subject. I could have the opinion that the world was flat, but people would definitely call me ignorant if I were to assert that to them. There is an exceptional amount of proof that the earth is round. There is an exceptional amount of proof that breastfeeding, even past two and three years is normal and healthy for both mom baby.

And MaryMooMoo is correct, anyone who has been properly trained in lactation knows the the absolute number one priority is to feed the baby. It may be with ABM or EBM, bottles, cup, syringe or lactation aid, but the baby must eat and it's incredibly important to remember that. Even the most die-hard breastfeeder knows that.

The screaming isn't necessary, NoCrumping.