boards need to regulate MA's

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Really sick of ma's doing all sorts of things under a dr's license. (or RN license). It is quite amazing the things they do. Scary as a matter of fact. Really feel the boards of Nursing need to take a stand on this issue. They regulate everyting else , why not MA's (medical assistants). I plan on looking into it in Ohio. Any one else ? Don't get me wrong, I love MA's Cna's etc... they are a vital part of the medical world. However, the things they are allowed to do are jaw dropping. Not that skills are difficult but the critical thinking aspect of the skill is another matter. I know they are acting under the license of a DR. but, don't want them to care for my child or 88 yo mother.

Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.
I resent the fact that CMA'S are looked upon as cheap substitutes. I am very passionate about my job and the care my patients receive from me.

I am very offended by the comment that we are cheap labor. If you know so much, then why did you stop at your nursing degree? Why did you not go on to become the DR?

For the second time...we are not discussing good MA's. We know they exist. A good MA is worth every penny that they earn. We are discussing MA's who do not follow the rules. Those who are dangerous.

The cheap labor statement refers to the fact that doctors can pay MA's much less than a nurse. It's not that you're inferior or don't earn your money it's about the doctors unwillingness to pay for licensed employees that they can afford.

We, nurses, as a group don't think we know everything but there are some definate things that we know and one of those is that MA's who practice outside of their limitations are dangerous. Those who refer to themselves a "nurses" are breaking the law.

Everyone can get an education if that's what they truly desire. You have found your way to accompolish your goal of becoming a nurse and I applaud you for that. Nurses go to nursing school because they want to be a nurse not because they'd rather be a doctor. Don't take offense, nobody has a problem with a good CMA.

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I resent the fact that CMA'S are looked upon as cheap substitutes. I am very passionate about my job and the care my patients receive from me. I WILL NOT PERFORM SOMETHING THAT IS OUT OF MY POTENTIAL FOR A DR. OR ANYONE! And yes, I have been fired from jobs because of this. But you know what, I am the one that can lay my head down at night knowing that if that patient dies during the night, IT WILL NOT BE BECAUSE OF AN UNSKILLED PROCEDURE THAT I PERFORMED.

Also, not everyone has the opportunity to go straight into nursing school, working as a medical assistant is paying my way through nursing school now as I try to further my career. Also, If it were not for MA'S or CNA's. then that would be more work for you all to do, and give you all something else to gripe about.

I am very offended by the comment that we are cheap labor. If you know so much, then why did you stop at your nursing degree? Why did you not go on to become the DR?

Because nursing and medicine are two different professions. That's an inapt comparison.

We're not objecting unskilled tasks. We are objecting to the MAs who venture into the realm of skilled nursing care and see no problem with what they're doing "because it's OK with the doctor." I have a huge problem with MAs who think it's OK for them to start IVs, call in prescriptions, suture (as one MA claimed to do), call pts. with lab results, etc.

The fact is doctors are able to staff their offices with MAs instead of nurses because they can be paid far less than what the doc would have to pay someone with a nursing license.

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I don't see how this is in any way, shape, or form an issue of good MA vs bad MA. The SOLE responsibility for this lies with the covering physician!!! It does not lie with the MA. The physician is the one making the decisions on who to hire, how to train them, and what sort of duties they will perform. Place the responsibility square on the physician where it belongs.

If (s)he's allowing things to be performed under his/her license that are illegal, report them to the board of Healing Arts. This is not a nursing issue. This is not a Board of Nursing issue.

I also fail to see how requiring all nurses to have a BSN will somehow make us all walk on water and will fix all that is wrong with the healthcare system. I'd post a sarcastic smilie here, but I'm not finding one.

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Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.
I also fail to see how requiring all nurses to have a BSN will somehow make us all walk on water and will fix all that is wrong with the healthcare system. I'd post a sarcastic smilie here, but I'm not finding one.
sarcastic08.jpg Thanks for your excellent post.
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For the second time...we are not discussing good MA's. We know they exist. A good MA is worth every penny that they earn. We are discussing MA's who do not follow the rules. Those who are dangerous.

The cheap labor statement refers to the fact that doctors can pay MA's much less than a nurse. It's not that you're inferior or don't earn your money it's about the doctors unwillingness to pay for licensed employees that they can afford.

We, nurses, as a group don't think we know everything but there are some definate things that we know and one of those is that MA's who practice outside of their limitations are dangerous. Those who refer to themselves a "nurses" are breaking the law.

Everyone can get an education if that's what they truly desire. You have found your way to accompolish your goal of becoming a nurse and I applaud you for that. Nurses go to nursing school because they want to be a nurse not because they'd rather be a doctor. Don't take offense, nobody has a problem with a good CMA.

well said ! Ma's are very important. That's not the issue. Your right. Thank for the input. :yelclap:

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Specializes in Operating Room.
Sorry, I don't see any correlation what-so-ever whether an RN has his/her ADN or BSN in relation to what we are discussing.

Well, it just seems to me that if there were a minimum education level to perform certain tasks in healthcare settings then there wouldn't be these "cheap substitutes"(don't mean to affend anyone) taking place of LPN's and sometime RN's. It just seems that 8 weeks is not sufficient enough to perform these task. Does that make sense...maybe?

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Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.
Well, it just seems to me that if there were a minimum education level to perform certain tasks in healthcare settings then there wouldn't be these "cheap substitutes"(don't mean to affend anyone) taking place of LPN's and sometime RN's. It just seems that 8 weeks is not sufficient enough to perform these task. Does that make sense...maybe?

It is not the LPN's or RN's that need to be held to a minimum education level. We, as nurses, are not the problem. It is the MA's that need more regulations placed upon them.

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Specializes in hospice, and home health.

Well, I dont know where you all are from, but here MA'S are required to go to school for 15 months, NOT 8 WEEKS! Now the CNA's HAve to go for 12 weeks. So I am a little perplexed by only 8 weeks of training. However, you all need to think that if it were not for us MA's and CNA's it would only be more work for you all to do.

BUT I WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE THAT THEY SHOULD BE MONITERED VERY CLOSELY JUST AS NURSES ARE! Just so you all know, I am on my way to join you all in the profession and I am very happy about it. But I am just as happy with my CMA.

ANyways, I wish all of you the best of luck in the future, and may GOD bless each and every one of you and keep you and your families safe.:balloons:I am calling a truce! How many are up for it? Let me know.

Thanks,

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Specializes in Family NP, OB Nursing.

Regardless of how long schooling is for an MA the problem is that a doctor DOESN'T have to hire a certified or trained MA to work in his office. He can hire his untrained nephew/cousin/sister/best friend... and call them his medical assistant. There are no regulations against it.

Anyone can be a "medical assistant" and that is the problem. I know doctors who have their wives work with them as their assistants, they got their training "on the job". They give injections, call in refills, and just about everthing else an office nurse would do, since these docs don't have any nurses in their offices.

I worked in an OBs office for awhile to help him out after his nurse retired. When he couldn't find a nurse to work in his office he simply hired a friends daughter as his "medical assistant". She does everything I used to do.

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Specializes in ICU, currently in Anesthesia School.

rninwch-

Thank you for clarifying my point. MA's are an extension of the MEDICAL practice act, not the nurse practice act. We wouldn't want the MD's telling us how to practice nursing. Due to what is most likely economic reasons, MD's want to have assistants that are usually cheaper than a Nurse, hence MEDICAL assistants. We cannot regulate this practice as it is legally a medical one. Now, I would file grievances with the BON of each respective state that an MA referred to themselves as a "nurse" (protected title). Just as I would never refer to myself as Doctor so and so in a patient care situation regardless of my degree.

Bella- I would like to know which board (Medical/nursing) gives the certification you hold. I would tend to think if it is a nursing board, then you hold a Certified Medication Aide rather than a Certified Medical Assistant. One is delegated Nursing duties, the other is Delegated Medical duties. there may be some overlap in these skills- injections for example. But one is legally the practice of nursing, the other is the practice of medicine.

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Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.

it isn't just a "cost" issue.

yes, mas tend to get paid less than nurses.

but i think that for physicians, that is only half the issue.

the fact is, nurses are limited by their scope of practice. i've never looked into the specifics, but i'd bet in most states, an rn cannot do a biopsy, along with many other "simple" procedures.

an ma can, if the ma has been trained by the physician, and the physician feels the ma to be capable.

in my state, it is difficult for an rn to be allowed to suture. yet there are physician's offices where mas suture all the time.

not only does a physician have to pay more to use an rn, but they actually end up with an empolyee who can do less.

i'm not sure that increased regulation is the answer. medical regulation really is very different than nursing regulation.

while it is true that a cardiologist can't suddenly decide to become a general surgeon and operate (say, doing a cabg), but that is because a hospital would have to grant privlidges for that doctor to do surgery in its facility. the hospital isn't going to grant those privlidges without evidence of competency.

however, if you change that cabg to breast enlargement, and change the location from a hospital-based or to the physician's private office ....... suddenly, that cardiologist can do surgery. (this type of thing has actually happened with non-plastics-trained physicians/surgeons learning in a weekend course how to do plastic surgery procedures, and opening up shop. often with very bad outcomes).

much of the medical regulations come from the facility where the physician practices. while that is true for nusing as well, most bons seem to have more teeth than the medical boards.

anyway, my point is that the medical board doesn't do a very good job at regulating what its physicians can do.......why would we think that it would do a better job in regulating their assistants?

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Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.
the fact is, nurses are limited by their scope of practice. i've never looked into the specifics, but i'd bet in most states, an rn cannot do a biopsy, along with many other "simple" procedures.

in my state, it is difficult for an rn to be allowed to suture. yet there are physician's offices where mas suture all the time.

i would not take the responsibility of doing a biopsy or sutures. it's not that i don't think i could but why risk my license for something the doctor is being paid good money to do. as a patient i would refuse to let someone other than the doctor perform my biopsy or close a wound.

not only does a physician have to pay more to use an rn, but they actually end up with an empolyee who can do less.
can do less only because we are intelligent enough to realize those are things we should not being doing. whether or not the doctors allow it doesn't mean it's right. they get what you pay for. lpn's & rn's are very valuable for critcal thinking skills which ma's do not pocess.
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