Be careful in monitoring with urine and blood tests like peth!

[Universe93B]

I have a friend who is in a 5 year monitoring program with 3 Urine etg per month and probably around 2-3 peth a year.  She's in a very tough state with a strict monitoring program.  She's already past her 2 year mark I believe.  

Anyway, she apparently drank 6-7 drinks on a long weekend, and then had a random peth right on the Monday.  She already had a peth just recently.  The peth came back very low positive, at 24.  Below 20 is reported abstinence.  

Now, they are making her go to a 96 hour evaluation to determine the next steps.  She is saying she ate beef burgundy as to why she has a positive peth.  But I think she knows also that the 96 hour evaluation is just a "show" and that they will recommend rehab again.  If that happens, she would need to put her job on hold, or more likely lose her current job.  

Don't try to mess around here folks!  Because if your program has random peth tests, you can't beat that.

[Steven Thompson]

Let me see, a nurse is in a monitoring program that states very clearly, no substances. Then the nurse has 7 drinks on the weekend and tests positive for alcohol and she now has to go for an evaluation? Duh....no ***. What should the board do? Tell her to "cut back on weekends?" Of course monitoring programs are 'set up to catch you." No ***. That's their job.

As for the nurse who drank. If she doesn't have a true SUD, then why drink? If she truly doesn't have SUD, and she drank 7 beers, then she needs a mental health evaluation for IQ/ignorance or narcissistic personality disorder as she feels the rules don't apply. Maybe the rules should NOT apply if she truly doesn't have an SUD, but for the Love of God, once you land in one of these programs, common sense tells even the worst Heroin or Cocaine or SUD addicted person in the world thst..."I can't do this while in the program or the consequences are devastating." 

[Healer555]

Steven Thompson said:

Let me see, a nurse is in a monitoring program that states very clearly, no substances. Then the nurse has 7 drinks on the weekend and tests positive for alcohol and she now has to go for an evaluation? Duh....no ***. What should the board do? Tell her to "cut back on weekends?" Of course monitoring programs are 'set up to catch you." No ***. That's their job.

As for the nurse who drank. If she doesn't have a true SUD, then why drink? If she truly doesn't have SUD, and she drank 7 beers, then she needs a mental health evaluation for IQ/ignorance or narcissistic personality disorder as she feels the rules don't apply. Maybe the rules should NOT apply if she truly doesn't have an SUD, but for the Love of God, once you land in one of these programs, common sense tells even the worst Heroin or Cocaine or SUD addicted person in the world thst..."I can't do this while in the program or the consequences are devastating." 

I've noticed a trend that people with a sud are more tolerant for this draconian bs than those of us who don't.  We've already been misdiagnosed once, no need to continue the misdiagnosed

 Perhaps the person was acting out which is perfectly normal. We who don't have a sud are treated the same as those who do. I've never used an illegal drug never taken anything not prescribed to me and rarely drink and definitely not at work  yet here I am being punished as if I committed a crime to keep a license I worked hard for. I do root for people who can get away with breaking the rules. I'm definitely too afraid to even try until I'm done with this awful monitoring agreement. 

[Steven Thompson]

The problem is regardless of whether you have an SUD or not, once you are in this program, you are in. You don't act out or "fight the man," or "have a lower threshold for BS," by using drugs or alcohol. You fight back in other ways. Get a lawyer, go to court, tie the Board up in court with legal suits, etc. Those are reasonable actions above, but drinking is literally self destruction and ruining any chance you had of a continued career.

 

[Healer555]

Steven Thompson said:

The problem is regardless of whether you have an SUD or not, once you are in this program, you are in. You don't act out or "fight the man," or "have a lower threshold for BS," by using drugs or alcohol. You fight back in other ways. Get a lawyer, go to court, tie the Board up in court with legal suits, etc. Those are reasonable actions above, but drinking is literally self destruction and ruining any chance you had of a continued career.

 

In my state you get extra chances but time is added.  People can relapse or be non compliant multiple times before a career is lost. I don't want an extra minute longer than needed so I follow all of the stupid rules and hate every minute of it.. A lawyer usually doesn't help though I wish I would have tried.  

I can't help but root for those who try to beat the system.  I wouldn't advise it but it doesn't mean they have a low IQ etc. 

[Steven Thompson]

Healer555 said:

In my state you get extra chances but time is added.  People can relapse or be non compliant multiple times before a career is lost. I don't want an extra minute longer than needed so I follow all of the stupid rules and hate every minute of it.. A lawyer usually doesn't help though I wish I would have tried.  

I can't help but root for those who try to beat the system.  I wouldn't advise it but it doesn't mean they have a low IQ etc. 

Hold on now....a huge difference in saying people trying to beat the system have low IQs versus the person described in this thread that drank 7 beers on the weekend and wondered why she got caught as having a low IQ. . Those two aren't the same and I never wrote that people who try to beat the system have low IQs. I absolutely DID write that the nurse who drank 7 beers on the weekend only to fail a drug test on Monday is either ignorant or has some type of narcissistic issues in place and I stand by it.

Most state boards will keep giving nurses multiple chances 2, 3 times while in monitoring. The problem is your monitoring is extended (if you are lucky) or it starts all over again (becoming more common). I've known 3 nurses in my lifetime who have slipped, made a mistake, got monitoring extended by 2 to 5 years, and finished up and was good to go. I've know over 100 who dropped out after monitoring was extended by 2 years or more. The point is, the average human no matter how tough they are will not do 7 or 10 years in a monitoring program. They will move on. 

It's like saying, ALS isn't the end of one's life.....OK, kind of, you can have no motor movement in your body and live sometimes for 20 years, so your life isn't technically over, but it's far from the same. A nurse who had been in the program for 3.5 years and tests positive for alcohol or drugs only yo be told she or he now has to start over and do 5 years which basically equals yo 8.5 years of monitoring is essentially a career ender for most nurses. Can you imagine? Your employer having to send aa quarterly report for nearly one decade? Additionally, for states requiring 3 recovery meetings weekly. Imagine that for nearly one decade. Most people will not do it and I don't blame them.

[Healer555]

Steven Thompson said:

Hold on now....a huge difference in saying people trying to beat the system have low IQs versus the person described in this threat that drank 7 beers on the weekend and wondered why she got caught as having a low IQ. . Those two aren't the same and I never wrote that people who try to beat the system have low IQs. I absolutely DID write that the nurse who drank 7 beers on the weekend only to fail a drug test on Monday is either ignorant or has some type of narcissistic issues in place and I stand by it.

Most state boards will keep giving nurses multiple chances 2, 3 times while in monitoring. The problem is your monitoring is extended (if you are lucky) or it starts all over again (becoming more common). I've known 3 nurses in my lifetime who have slipped, made a mistake, got monitoring extended by 2 to 5 years, and finished up and was good to go. I've know over 100 who dropped out after monitoring was extended by 2 years or more. The point is, the average human no matter how tough they are will not do 7 or 10 years in a monitoring program. They will move on. 

It's like saying, ALS isn't the end of one's life.....OK, kind of, you can have no motor movement in your body and live sometimes for 20 years, so your life isn't technically over, but it's far from the same. A nurse who had been in the program for 3.5 years and tests positive for alcohol or drugs only yo be told she or he now has to start over and do 5 years which basically equals yo 8.5 years of monitoring is essentially a career ender for most nurses. Can you imagine? Your employer having to send aa quarterly report for nearly one decade? Additionally, for states requiring 3 recovery meetings weekly. Imagine that for nearly one decade. Most people will not do it and I don't blame them.

It's not necessarily ignorant or narcissistic.  They could be acting out or relapsing. Don't label.  The quarterly report takes less than one minute. My employer is happy to do mine.   Good nurses are hard to find. There are also people who will go to 3 or more meetings a week  forever by choice and there are some who request to have a monitoring agreement forever because they need it. There's a wide range you aren't seeing. 

I am not advocating for anyone to be noncompliant and it's self destructive but to label or diagnose them or even be hard on them is not constructive.  Let's help each other get through this bs.

My best advice to anyone is avoid a monitoring agreement if possible and if not do your time and get out or opt to find a new career. 

 

[Steven Thompson]

Healer555 said:

It's not necessary ignorant or narcissistic.  They could be acting out ot relapsing. Don't label.  The quarterly report takes less than one minute. My employer is happy to do mine.   There are also people who will go to 3 or more meetings a week  forever by choice and there are some who request to have a monitoring agreement forever because they need it. There's a wide range you aren't seeing. 

I am not advocating for anyone to be noncompliance and it's self destructive but to label or diagnose them or even be hard on them is not constructive.  Let's help each other get through this bs.

My best advice to anyone is avoid a monitoring agreement if possible and if not do your time and get out or opt to find a new career. 

We disagree. It absolutely is ignorant something related to narcissism and DO LABEL when something is clear and call it out for what it is. Moral relativism is exactly why so many of us ended up in these programs. I wish someone would have had some balls and actually LABELED me and called out my drug seeking behavior before I got caught.

Quarterly reports come from employers and most states that have nurses under consent do not allow them in leadership positions and that means lost money and many states allow your Quarterly report from one supervisor only. When the supervisor moves, is sick, retires, goes on vacation and that report isn't on time, bad things happen. I've set on the California Board. I know this. After 72 months of monitoring, the odds of one keystroke being off with the email simply happens.

Self destruction is a label even though you "don't want to label," even though you have no clue or idea on the value of labeling or not labeling, but you just echo it because it sounds "cool" is also off based. You just wrote it's self destruction. That's a start for at least calling it for what it is, but I will take it a step further. Self destruction, according to DATA (not nurse coffee room talk) but actual DATA shows us self destruction often comes at the hands of ignorance or some form of narcissism if the behavior is one purposely going against the rules.

When a person gets pulled over for doing 100 mph in a 55mph zone, does the driver tell the cop, "don't judge me or label me.' Fact is, the nurse is rightfully getting judged on the spot in the form of a ticket and the nurse who drank 7 beers on Saturday and is now "concerned or worried" about her positive drug test on Monday is being rightfully judged and labeled on the spot by the Board as being someone in non compliance. They are also Ignorant or Narcissistic in some form. 

[Healer555]

Steven Thompson said:

We disagree. It absolutely is ignorant something related to narcissism and DO LABEL when something is clear and call it out for what it is. Moral relativism is exactly why so many of us ended up in these programs. I wish someone would have had some balls and actually LABELED me and called out my drug seeking behavior before I got caught.

Quarterly reports come from employers and most states that have nurses under consent do not allow them in leadership positions and that means lost money and many states allow your Quarterly report from one supervisor only. When the supervisor moves, is sick, retires, goes on vacation and that report isn't on time, bad things happen. I've set on the California Board. I know this. After 72 months of monitoring, the odds of one keystroke being off with the email simply happens.

Self destruction is a label even though you "don't want to label," even though you have no clue or idea on the value of labeling or not labeling, but you just echo it because it sounds "cool" is also off based. You just wrote it's self destruction. That's a start for at least calling it for what it is, but I will take it a step further. Self destruction, according to DATA (not nurse coffee room talk) but actual DATA shows us self destruction often comes at the hands of ignorance or some form of narcissism if the behavior is one purposely going against the rules.

When a person gets pulled over for doing 100 mph in a 55mph zone, does the driver tell the cop, "don't judge me or label me.' Fact is, the nurse is rightfully getting judged on the spot in the form of a ticket and the nurse who drank 7 beers on Saturday and is now "concerned or worried" about her positive drug test on Monday is being rightfully judged and labeled on the spot by the Board as being someone in non compliance. They are also Ignorant or Narcissistic in some form. 

I do hope you don't misdiagnose or label your patients and show them more compassion than you show here

[Steven Thompson]

Healer555 said:

I do hope you don't misdiagnose or label your patients and show them more compassion than you show here

Didn't diagnose anyone. Ignorance is a behavior and narcissistic personality disorder is a diagnosis and narcissistic behavior is not. I pointed out her behavior was narcissistic (and it was). There's a difference in "my patients" and the nurse who drank 7 beers on a Saturday while in a monitoring program as those are two different things. Compassion is centered on HONESTY, not lying or "wanting to not offend' because when we are so careful to "not offend" as a replacement for honesty, we are doing it to preserve our own ego. People actually In Recovery and for those of us that take it seriously know this and also by doing the above, we create more harm to people.

The nurse who drank 7 beers and tested positive actually needs her ego hurt. That's part of her problem. Her ego didn't give a care about the rules. The behavior needs labeled and I call what she did exactly what a normal reasonable person would call her behavior which is.....stupid. she needs told her behavior was STUPID in order to not to repeat the same mistake.

 

[Healer555]

Steven Thompson said:

Didn't diagnose anyone. Ignorance is a behavior and narcissistic personality disorder is a diagnosis and narcissistic behavior is not. I pointed out her behavior was narcissistic (and it was). There's a difference in "my patients" and the nurse who drank 7 beers on a Saturday while in a monitoring program as those are two different things. Compassion is centered on HONESTY, not lying or "wanting to not offend' because when we are so careful to "not offend" as a replacement for honesty, we are doing it to preserve our own ego. People actually In Recovery and for those of us that take it seriously know this and also by doing the above, we create more harm to people.

The nurse who drank 7 beers and tested positive actually needs her ego hurt. That's part of her problem. Her ego didn't give a care about the rules. The behavior needs labeled and I call what she did exactly what a normal reasonable person would call her behavior which is.....stupid. she needs told her behavior was STUPID in order to not to repeat the same mistake.

 

Not all of us are in recovery. Some of us deserve more compassion.and not to be treated like addicts.  Stupid? Really?I'll agree to disagree. 

[Healer555]

Steven Thompson said:

We disagree. It absolutely is ignorant something related to narcissism and DO LABEL when something is clear and call it out for what it is. Moral relativism is exactly why so many of us ended up in these programs. I wish someone would have had some balls and actually LABELED me and called out my drug seeking behavior before I got caught.

Quarterly reports come from employers and most states that have nurses under consent do not allow them in leadership positions and that means lost money and many states allow your Quarterly report from one supervisor only. When the supervisor moves, is sick, retires, goes on vacation and that report isn't on time, bad things happen. I've set on the California Board. I know this. After 72 months of monitoring, the odds of one keystroke being off with the email simply happens.

Self destruction is a label even though you "don't want to label," even though you have no clue or idea on the value of labeling or not labeling, but you just echo it because it sounds "cool" is also off based. You just wrote it's self destruction. That's a start for at least calling it for what it is, but I will take it a step further. Self destruction, according to DATA (not nurse coffee room talk) but actual DATA shows us self destruction often comes at the hands of ignorance or some form of narcissism if the behavior is one purposely going against the rules.

When a person gets pulled over for doing 100 mph in a 55mph zone, does the driver tell the cop, "don't judge me or label me.' Fact is, the nurse is rightfully getting judged on the spot in the form of a ticket and the nurse who drank 7 beers on Saturday and is now "concerned or worried" about her positive drug test on Monday is being rightfully judged and labeled on the spot by the Board as being someone in non compliance. They are also Ignorant or Narcissistic in some form. 

Curious. Is a keystrokes error saying a person is incompetent or impaired? If so can't ir be easily rectified by contacting tge person who made the error? 

[Steven Thompson]

Healer555 said:

Not all of us are in recovery. Some of us deserve more compassion.and not to be treated like addicts.  Stupid? Really?I'll agree to disagree. 

Don't say "us". You don't speak for the entire message board and wasn't voted to represent everyone, so stop the red herring by using the word "us" and using the 4th grade red herring of building a coalition."  What did happen in this thread? Several people called it for what it was for the nurse in a recovery/monitoring program that drank 7 beers and wondered why she tested positive for alcohol. They pretty much called it stupid like I did and it was that....stupid. calling it stupid isn't labeling or lack of compassion, it's calling it what it is....stupid.

And no some of 'us" do NOT deserve more compassion or less compassion. It doesn't matter if we are in a monitoring program and have an SUD or not. We ALL equally deserve the SAME compassion and part of compassion is Honesty and Calling out bad behavior for what it is, and equally important, calling out and rewarding good behavior when it's done.