Bad vibes from med/surg director..what to do??

alby_dangle · Oct 19, 2011

I had a similar situation to yours, and my advice is to just make sure you don't take it personally. That is what I'm trying to do. And hope that if you get the job you won't have to deal with her that much.

In my situation, this woman who will now be my boss was completely unprofessional in the interview. This facility is really nice, but she had me sit there while she powered on her computer(that had shut down on its own) so that she would be able to look at my application the HR lady had forwarded to her. She answered four e-mails on her computer while I sat there and also texted on her phone. Two different people from out in the hall interrupted the interview by bringing something in to her (batteries and a lamp). And any time someone passed by the door, she flagged them down and gave them some message that she had meant to tell them earlier. On our tour of the unit, she also grabbed a cleaning bottle and rag off of the custodians cart so she could go clean "fingerprints" off of her office door that were driving her mad. She said if she didn't get them at that moment that it was going to drive her crazy. She did not seem focused on me at all, which really turned me off. If she is going to be hiring me shouldn't she make sure she pays attention to my answers to the questions that SHE asked me??

Good luck to you. Maybe keep interviewing and see if you find something a little more promising. I would also try to remember that these managers have a pretty stressful job as well and the last thing they want to think about is probably hiring and training new people (even thought that is one of the biggest parts of their job).

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Oct 21, 2011

I know it stinks to get mixed messages, but if they can't keep their "stuff" together just to get someone hired, I'd be skeptical about the organization in general.

I've also had co-workers who were really horrible to deal with personally- BUT they were incredible sources of information. It sort of depends on each setting. But if you get bad feelings in the interview, my experience has been that working there isn't any better .... they may have done you a favor- I don't know.... but I wouldn't like that.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Oct 21, 2011

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a couple of things jumped out at me here that may explain why the OP didn't get the job.

First, there seems to be a presumption that the director should have been impressed by the fact the OP holds two bachelor's degrees and precepted in the ICU. Really? Until a nurse gets some real-world experience, the degree doesn't mean a hill of beans. The disparity between the educational levels of the director and the OP also comes up more than once in the post, leading me to wonder if some of that attitude just might have come through during the interview as well. Why should the director have been bowled over by a couple of bachelor's degrees when at least one of them had nothing to do with the job being offered?

Another thing that didn't sit well with me was the bit about how the OP is such a calm, sweet person who "knows" she's the best qualified for the job (and how, may I ask, would she know who else was interviewed?), then goes on to blast the director as a (female dog) who doesn't deserve to be where she is---the implication being that she doesn't have the academic background for the position she now holds as an associate's degree RN. Again with the ADN-who-doesn't-belong-in-management, supposedly feeling "threatened" by a new grad with a superior education. Balderdash!

Frankly, the tone of this entire post is immature as well as arrogant, and I can't help but suspect that this was probably all too obvious in the interview....and that is more than likely the reason the OP didn't get the job. Her very first impression of the director was knee-jerk and negative, and she attacks the woman unceasingly through the entire post---how could such disdain NOT have shown?

I'm sorry, but as a fiftysomething ADN and a nurse-administrator, I wouldn't hire a nurse who even hints that I am inferior, or that my department is beneath her and she is applying only because there are no new-grad positions elsewhere. I don't care what sort of book-learning she has---no one OWES her a job, and if this particular poster doesn't learn quickly how to tamp down her own judgmentalism she's not likely to get one in a job market that's oversaturated with hungry new grads. 'nuff said.

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Oct 21, 2011

Good point, Viva,

Hiring managers are paid to be nice enough to people so they come back if the managers want to interview.

Letters after a name do not guarantee being the best qualified. How do you know what the other applicants had to offer? Just a suggestion-- to not assume you're the best at anything being as new as you are....you may have had great preceptor reviews- but that's not the same as holding your own with a full patient load and nobody to watch over/help/answer questions, etc. :)

Listening to what other people think about someone isn't all that helpful when you don't know that person (maybe she was bent about THEM, not you ????)

Precepting in ICU isn't really that important unless you're working in ICU. In fact, it can be a liability- you're used to a couple of sick patients; the floors get at least 4- with the number of tubes that ICU transfers them with. And more family.

Getting jobs is frustrating- no doubt about it. But it also requires knowing that as a new grad, you are no different than any other new grad (and most hospitals know that ADN/diploma grads got more clinical exposure IN GENERAL than BSN programs).

Hang in there- but also be VERY aware of how you come across.... in this market THEY are doing you a favor by even talking to you. Until you have documented experience as a working nurse, you don't have much to offer them. It bites- but it's true.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Oct 21, 2011

I was just thinking about this post again on the way to work this morning, and it occurred to me that making a big fuss about the initials behind one's name is almost always a defense mechanism---as in, if you can't dazzle 'em with your brilliance, baffle 'em with.....well, lots of initials behind your name.

Now, I'd be among the first to advise nurses wondering whether to go on with their education to go for it, if they have the option. Education, even that which is seemingly unrelated to one's vocation, is NEVER wasted. There are still times that I wish I hadn't needed the money so badly when I graduated from my two-year program, which actually took four years to achieve what with pre-reqs and general education requirements; the BSN wouldn't have gotten me where I wanted to be (teaching clinicals in a nursing program) but I could've finished an MSN within another few years if I hadn't had to work full-time right out of the starting gate. And now that I'm in a good place---but still having to work full-time-plus to support my husband, sister and myself, and being an "old" 52-year-old---there is no motivation, nor financial ability, for me to go back.

Long story short, what that means is if you come to me asking for a job and tell me that you hold two bachelor's degrees, all that says to me is that you know how to be a student. It doesn't tell me that you know anything about being a NURSE. And if I sense that you're looking down your nose at me because I happen to have less formal education---and how would you know that in the first place??---I'm likely to cut you off at the knees and find somewhere else I need to be at that moment......thank you for coming in, we'll be in touch, AKA don't call us, we'll call you.

allnurses Guide · Oct 21, 2011

. .. .Please if anyone can give me any type of advice on what to do when you encounter a director (potential boss) that is rude or is judgmental. I mean is it really that wrong to say I precepted in ICU when I am applying to a med/surg position....I know some people think that if you precept in ICU then apply for ICU position. But that is almost impossible cause none of these hospitals hire new grads for ICU!!! So should I just not put it on my resume?? HELP... I am just so angry and frustrated!!

During the interview process there isn't much you can do if someone behaves that way. I doubt it will happen again because the way you state it, she had a problem with you as an individual. It just makes no sense for someone to give an interviewee a look of disgust immediately like that, before you even begin to talk. Why would she ask if you had critical care experience if she was offended by your answer? Is there any possibility you may have interpreted her body language as something other than it really was?

My last bit of advice would be your conversing with people you know who work there, discussing personal details of the lady's life such as her age and what type of education she has. It's best to assume that anything you say to anyone will get back to that person. The walls have ears, believe me. :uhoh21:

I know it's frustrating right now, but the truth is there may have been several finalists, and the cards didn't break your way. So just move on, brush off and learn what you can from the experience. Good luck! :)

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Oct 21, 2011

Get used to it. Sometimes they are just having a bad day or don't like the color of your tooth. This is just how it is sometimes in the real world. The trick is to learn how to let it roll off your back.........

poopprincess · Oct 23, 2011

Let it roll. Everything that you described about that director is pertaining to issues that she has personally. It doesn't have anything to do with you and these are things that you shouldn't even know. As far questioning you about ICU-she was testing your knowledge base to see what you learned in your preceptorship. I think that questions may have been over your head, thus making the interview take a negative spin. Once it went in that direction, your response was anger because it was frustrating. She may have been striking out, I don't know. I don't see a reason for it though, unless you came off as a know it all. I once had an ER interview like that-the questions were way over my head. I didn't get the position and once I got a taste of med-sug, I viewed it as a blessing. I wasn't ready for it and not hiring me was a good call on their part (still want to give ER a try, just not yet). I suspect the reasoning for the questioning was simply to see your knowledge base though. They don;t have any way of testing what you know without asking.

The things about her going back to school, her opinion of unionizing and such are her personal issues and completely irrelevant. I can assure you that being a new grad, she could care less about your degrees and you are not a threat to her in any way. The thing about nursing is it doesn't matter how much education we have prior to graduation. Really it boils down to we def. don't know as much as we think we do and it takes years of experience to obtain a solid knowledge base.

Nursing managers/directors and such are very direct people. They don't beat around the bush. View this interview as a practice run to prepare for the next. You may go on several interviews before getting a job. When you do get an offer, it may not be what you wanted either. You guys didn't click. Life goes on. It sounds to me like you don't like her anymore than she did you, so you wouldn't have a good working relationship anyways. Keep trying and something will come your way. Tell them about your ICU preceptorship, be honest in what you know and what you don't know and don't try to act like you know more than you really do. They can see right through that. It's tough treading that fine like of confidence and not being cocky. I'm not saying that you were, but her opinion of you can't be changed. Maybe it was personal and if it was then it's a blessing in disguise that you didn't get the job. Ideally, you don't want to hate your first job. Good luck in your search.