Army Nurse/CRNA Deployments and Life

just_cause, BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2010

Thanks for prior service - congrats on ICU experience.

I want to toss in my thoughts....

You might look at the option of cont' ICU experience as a straight civilian and when you gain your ICU (pre-CRNA experience) do 2 things...

apply to ANC + Army's CRNA school and apply to civilian CRNA schools... being accepted to Army CRNA + ANC program then gives a definitive route.. if not accepted and you gain acceptance to CRNA school elswhere you can then turn around and apply to ANC with loan repayment for that program...

I would just weight that because one you are 'in' the RC or active component the accession bonuses that are available to everyone else... aren't available to you. There are several routes to your objective but just make sure you're aware of all of them

allnurses Guide · Nov 5, 2010

I would skip joining the reserves and apply directly to the Army program when you have met all your prerequisites.

Army deployments are highly variable and conditions often depend on location and your rank. Most places work 6 12hr shifts while deployed plus 24/7 call so time off to go sight seeing is probably not going to be possible at most locations.

All AD CRNAs are eligible for 15-20K bonus during their payback.

Usually you won't be able to goto school until you have met service contract obligations from retention/speciality bonuses.

You will be working 50+hrs a week as CRNA so no you won't be doing a lot of extra training in firearms or anything not job related. The Army is dumb enough to send everyone to 2 months of infantry type training before you deploy where you fire all sorts of firearms etc.

Deployment pays like you are talking about are DOD payments are not exclusive to anyone one branch.

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2010

i would skip joining the reserves and apply directly to the army program when you have met all your prerequisites.
army deployments are highly variable and conditions often depend on location and your rank. most places work 6 12hr shifts while deployed plus 24/7 call so time off to go sight seeing is probably not going to be possible at most locations. depending on where you are sightseeing is not a option anyway. other areas it is not a issue. work schedules also depend on where you are, but the 24/7 call is true and that is why there is general order #1 and not alcohol in theater.
all ad crnas are eligible for 15-20k bonus during their payback.
usually you won't be able to goto school until you have met service contract obligations from retention/speciality bonuses.
you will be working 50+hrs a week as crna so no you won't be doing a lot of extra training in firearms or anything not job related. the army is dumb enough to send everyone to 2 months of infantry type training before you deploy where you fire all sorts of firearms etc. not true, it depends on the unit. most ad nurses, md's etc who are profis go to ft. benning for 1 week then deploy. if you are with the 1st rotation of a unit the train up might be a little be longer. not all of the "infantry" type training is dumb, some of it might save your life, ie convoy operations. but i do agree some of it is stupid, ie room clearing, since no nurse will be doing room clearing.
deployment pays like you are talking about are dod payments are not exclusive to anyone one branch.

not only do you get the additional pays but combat zone tax relief. how this is done is they take the taxes out they credit you later in the month.

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2010

i'm a prior navy enlisted guy with a brand new bsn and just about to start an icu position (civilian) :) i am talking to an army recruiter about joining the reserve this spring and then applying to the army's crna program and the army nurse corps in the fall of 2011 (anc as a back-up). i don't have a problem with deploying, but i do have some questions about various aspects:
are you able to request to be stationed at an overseas base with your family in lieu of deploying without your family? yes, but often they will not send you on your 1st assignment
where are some places other than the middle east sandbox where you are able to be deployed? yes, kosovo to name one if you are in the reserves.
how is life when you are deployed to the middle east or elsewhere in the world?
during your "free time" what do you do? depends on where you are. if in the sandbox alot of people spend alot of time at the gym or other mwr activities.
are you able to access internet and is it fast enough in order to to video calls? yes, it is location dependent. when i was in kosovo we where able to do video calls but it depended on the time of day and how many people were on line.
do you get your own barracks room or are you bunking with other people? also depends on location and rank.
do you only operate on us troops or do you get to work on locals? you will work on all coalition troops, certain contractors. also you will treat local nationals on a life, limb, or eyesight basis.
do you carry around a weapon? yes, most officers will carry a 9mm.
do you have any time off during your deployment to visit surrounding areas? also depends on the location.
anything else of interest about deployed life would be much appreciated as well. make sure you bring items you like, ie movies, books ect.
the navy nurse corps gives icu nurses an annual bonus of 5k to 20k depending on how long they are contracted for, does the army do anything like this? as of this time the army does have a isp program with the same amounts depend on the length of the contract.
i've seen several posts on this forum that indicate that crna's receive a 15k/year bonus during their payback time from school however my recruiter said this wasn't the case. can anybody confirm or deny? not sure
i saw a posting on this forum that claimed that if you take a sign-on bonus when entering the anc you cannot apply to the crna school until you pay back the time for the bonus, can anybody verify this? not sure.
while stationed in the us, how often do you get to go out and and shoot guns? are you able to do any sort of firearms qualifications (or whatever the army calls it)? all army personal are to go to the range 2 times a year. but it does not happen. as a medical personal we are only allowed to use defensive weapons ie 9mm, m16, shootgun.
when you're deployed, what sort of extra pay do you get? in the navy we would get family separation pay, hazardous duty pay, and all payments for the time in a combat zone were tax-free, is that similar to the army and if so, any rough estimates on how much these are now? the same.
thanks in advance

hope this look

allnurses Guide · Nov 6, 2010

not true, it depends on the unit. most ad nurses, md's etc who are profis go to ft. benning for 1 week then deploy. if you are with the 1st rotation of a unit the train up might be a little be longer. not all of the "infantry" type training is dumb, some of it might save your life, ie convoy operations. but i do agree some of it is stupid, ie room clearing, since no nurse will be doing room clearing.

okay, all the missions that af crnas that i have seen that are filling army slots have to goto 2 months of army training. yes, it is stupid to put a nurse/doc/crna into convoy operations. so again imo the training is stupid and does nothing but take me away from my family 2 months longer than i have to be. when is the last time you have seen a military crna doing convoy operations? my job is to provide anesthetic care to patients. it is not to do guard duty/convoy operations etc. those are combat duties, and medical officers should not be doing them.

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Nov 6, 2010

Recieving training on how to defend yourself in case of attack is not stupid.

Since you do not always travel by air which means that you will be in a traveling in a convoy and knowing how to react to a attack is not stupid it might just save your life. The chances that we will get in a firefight are small but there is the chance. Since we will go out of the wire to do MEDCAPS etc. there is the increased risk of being attacked. Remember we are all warriors before we are medical professionals no matter what we think. I agree that alot of the training is not needed but some of it is.

allnurses Guide · Nov 6, 2010

Recieving training on how to defend yourself in case of attack is not stupid.
Since you do not always travel by air which means that you will be in a traveling in a convoy and knowing how to react to a attack is not stupid it might just save your life. The chances that we will get in a firefight are small but there is the chance. Since we will go out of the wire to do MEDCAPS etc. there is the increased risk of being attacked. Remember we are all warriors before we are medical professionals no matter what we think. I agree that alot of the training is not needed but some of it is.

Let's see how many CRNAs/Nurses/Doctors have been attacked while going to and from deployed locations in the last 10yrs......ZERO. We are all trained to use M9 and M16 which is more than sufficient for our job duties. No I am a nurse anesthetist first and you are Nurse first no matter how much the Army tries to brainwash to the other wise, if you have any doubt about what your job actually is while deployed check the Geneva convention. So, again IMO two months of infantry training is stupid for CRNAs that are staying on base or even making short trips outside the wire under guard. Small arms training is enough, and there is absolutely no evidence that this has helped any CRNAs or Anesthesiologists that have deployed to any of these locations. Again this is just my opinion, but the facts are pretty clear that this has done nothing but extend deployments for people.

This doesn't matter much longer since supposably by summer all these Army tasking for AF CRNAs are going away.

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Nov 7, 2010

I agree that alot of the training is a waste of time and too long. 1-2 additional weeks is all it should be. As far as the Geneva convention we are allowed to protect ourselves, our patients, our facilities, & our supplies. With your line of thinking about the Geneva convention we would not be able to send out our medics with the combat arms units. Medics, Navy Corpsman are all under the same as us in the Geneva convention. Saying that you are not a warrior first is like saying that you are not a nurse first since you are a CRNA. Being a warrior does not mean you have to conduct combat operations just that you know how to defend yourself or others if you have to. There is a rule in firefighting/EMS, you are no good to anyone if you become a victim too. This rule also applies to medical personal in a combat zone, we can not treat patients if we become one.

Sounds like you will be deploying soon and you sound a little sore that you are being attached to a Army unit vs a Air Force one. I understand this since it is not your own service, I would not like to deploy with another service if I had my choice. I also am deploying soon and do not want to spend anymore time away from my family then is necessary for training.

If you are in the first rotation of the unit they have a train up period, which is more then likely too long then it needs to be, since not all the enlisted folks are gereric to the unit who have to do the whole year plus train up vs 6 months and train up.

allnurses Guide · Nov 7, 2010

I don't mind deploying with any branch. I trained in a quad-service environment, and I have no problem being with any service branch. What I do mind is an extra two months of training that I would have to do if I deployed to an army location. We don't do anything different job wise no matter which branch we deploy with. 1-2 weeks would be okay, unnecessary, but okay. 2 months is ridiculous especially when I still have 4-6+ wks of AF deployment training to do before I even start the Army training.

Enlisted are not covered as medical personell or given the same rights as medical officers under the Geneva convention so them doing combat missions is a mute point. The army to my knowledge is the only branch that has their medical officers doing combat duties such as guard duty/convoy duty etc. To me that is a violation to simultaneously claim to be a medical officer working under the Geneva convention while still doing combat ops. That is purely an army thing.

You are either a nurse/crna/medical officer first or you are a combatant/soldier first you can't be soldier first and still claim to be noncombatant covered under the Geneva convention.

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Nov 8, 2010

I don't mind deploying with any branch. I trained in a quad-service environment, and I have no problem being with any service branch. What I do mind is an extra two months of training that I would have to do if I deployed to an army location. We don't do anything different job wise no matter which branch we deploy with. 1-2 weeks would be okay, unnecessary, but okay. 2 months is ridiculous especially when I still have 4-6+ wks of AF deployment training to do before I even start the Army training.
Enlisted are not covered as medical personell or given the same rights as medical officers under the Geneva convention so them doing combat missions is a mute point. The army to my knowledge is the only branch that has their medical officers doing combat duties such as guard duty/convoy duty etc. To me that is a violation to simultaneously claim to be a medical officer working under the Geneva convention while still doing combat ops. That is purely an army thing.
You are either a nurse/crna/medical officer first or you are a combatant/soldier first you can't be soldier first and still claim to be noncombatant covered under the Geneva convention.

As a former Navy Hospital Corpsman, yes all medical personal have the same status under the Geneva convention. As in the articles from the Geneva convention below there is no mention of officer or enlisted just medical personal. Medical personal are allowed to be along side combat arm personal and still maintain their non-combative status as long as they are there to treat the sick & wounded. As with my earlier post to be a warrior you do not have to be offesive in nature but know how to protect yourself if you have to. I have not seen any Army medical officers doing guard duty etc. but they have been on convoys and need to know how to react to enemy contact. It sounds like the AF & Army need to somehow get on the same page as training so you would not have to do the 2 months of extra training.

This is qouted from Chapter IV of the Geneva convention

Article 24. Medical personnel exclusively engaged in the search for, or the collection, transport or treatment of the wounded or sick, or in the prevention of disease, staff exclusively engaged in the administration of medical units and establishments, as well as chaplains attached to the armed forces, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.

Article 25. Members of the armed forces specially trained for employment, should the need arise, as hospital orderlies, nurses or auxiliary stretcher-bearers, in the search for or the collection, transport or treatment of the wounded and sick shall likewise be respected and protected if they are carrying out these duties at the time when they come into contact with the enemy or fall into his hands.

As you see these 2 articles protect all medical personal.

just_cause, BSN, RN · Nov 8, 2010

protected from who/what?

Current conflicts... how may of our enemies are actively abiding by the Geneva convention?