Are Nursing schools hurting Nursing?

Nursing Students General Students

Published

First, please consider the attributes of your personal prototype of The Perfect Nurse. What adjectives would you use? Sensitive, caring, compassionate, patient, intelligent?

Now consider the gauntlet students have to run merely to get accepted into Nursing school.

Are the sensitive, caring, compassionate and patient being weeded out in order to make way for and to reward the competitve? And what is that doing to Nursing?

Hey, I'm just a freshman plodding through my pre-reqs, and my psych class this evening included a mention of "Achievement Motivation." Just trying to put 2 and 2 together, and I sometimes phrase things bluntly to elicit responses (I wonder in which chapter that sort of behaviour is covered?:p)

I can't speak for anyone, I don't know about other colleges, and I know the question wasn't for me, but IS and I both currently attend the same school, but different campuses. This is the current point system:

A-30pts, B-20pts, C-10pts--for the following classes: Anatomy & Physiology 1, Anatomy & Physiology 2, English, and Psychology. Added to that totaled score is the TEAS score (somewhere between 70-100, must pass all sections). You get 3 residence points for applying in your home region. (Other classes are assigned a 1pt value, but ONLY used as a tie-breaker)

That's it. That's the entire admission process. Do better than your peers. = )

Overall, I am satisfied with the classes that they chose, because obviously all of those classes are important.

However, the one major problem is that one can get stuck in the cycle. In every one of my classes, it seems there are several people having to retake a class because they got ONE B. (no - or + used). Another problem is there's no real GOAL to hit. There's nothing you can do, complete, cross off the list, that lets you know for SURE you are in. It all depends on everyone else, and how the tally turned out. (Which drives me CRAZY!) But, I'm sure this is the most universally applied "fair" they could come up with. --This leads to really depressing information sessions (which are required at each campus to which we apply.) They pretty much tell you it's all but impossible to get in, would we like to apply for some other health-related occupation instead?

Keeping the points system, what would I change? I would add:

-- Points given for CNA/EMT/previous health care experience. I'd just like to see that COUNT for something. Not a lot, maybe 5 or 10 points, just enough to add something to the score and give a bit more of a chance.

-- TEAS review sessions. Free or student-paid.

--Points for other classes automatically given the 1pt, maybe stagger that as well. 1.5 pts for A's, 1.0 pts for B's, .5 pts for C's.

--But what I'd REALLY like to see is more support, more guidance than "Get as many pts as you can, and then we'll talk." More encouragement.

I have to add, somewhat selfishly, that I wished we DID have an essay criteria. = )

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Yeah. I'd refer back to post #2 in this thread. When a classmate and I went across the street, and were told "We look at the whole person," we had No Clue what they were talking about.

Ok, I had to write an essay. I met with the Department Chair. Heaven only knows if other people I didn't know about were screening me and what criteria they used. It can't be money, because I'm dead broke. It sure ain't looks that got me in.

I just...have a suspicion something's out there, and I don't have all the answers yet. Does that come when you're a Senior?

Up Vote Up Vote ×

A community college that I applied to for Nursing only gave points for ONE Anatomy. The points were like this: A: 3pts, B: 2pts C:1 pt. The rest of your points came from the NET. (You have 12 points total). There were no other points given for any of the other pre requisites that you had to have (there were 10 pre requisites). They also did not give you any points for CNA/EMT. They told us that they entered everyone in on the computer, hit a button, and the 50 people with the most points got in. I just thought that it wasn't fair that you didn't get ANY points for any of the other pre-reqs except for your highest grade in A&P. Even if you had an A in A&P and did well on the NET, that wasn't a guarantee that you'd get in.

There were over 400 applicants for the RN program but they only accepted 50 per year.

It was so incredibly hard to get in there, and it was extremely competitive!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Yeah. I'd refer back to post #2 in this thread. When a classmate and I went across the street, and were told "We look at the whole person," we had No Clue what they were talking about.

Ok, I had to write an essay. I met with the Department Chair. Heaven only knows if other people I didn't know about were screening me and what criteria they used. It can't be money, because I'm dead broke. It sure ain't looks that got me in.

I just...have a suspicion something's out there, and I don't have all the answers yet. Does that come when you're a Senior?

Nah, knowing the answers comes in grad school :)

Seriously though, I always question programs who say that they look at the "whole person." How much of my "whole person" could they possibly see from my application and essay/interview?

What they're looking at is: my transcript, my writing skills, and my interviewing skills......and those have value, but they're not my "whole person." They also don't reliably demonstrate that I am caring and compassionate.

I think it would be great to admit only folks that have the traits to become great nurses....I just don't see a way to quantify those attributes beyond academic history.

I think where you meet a lot of disagreement is at your suggestion that being competitive academically is somehow an antithesis to being caring & compassionate.....that's where we diverge.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU.

Keeping the points system, what would I change? I would add:

-- Points given for CNA/EMT/previous health care experience. I'd just like to see that COUNT for something. Not a lot, maybe 5 or 10 points, just enough to add something to the score and give a bit more of a chance.

-- TEAS review sessions. Free or student-paid.

--Points for other classes automatically given the 1pt, maybe stagger that as well. 1.5 pts for A's, 1.0 pts for B's, .5 pts for C's.

--But what I'd REALLY like to see is more support, more guidance than "Get as many pts as you can, and then we'll talk." More encouragement.

I have to add, somewhat selfishly, that I wished we DID have an essay criteria. = )

My school has a similar point base system where only certain pre-req GPAs are taken into consideration. Flat out, if you get a B in any one of the pre reqs (English, Nutrition, Chemistry, Biology and College Algebra) then you will be retaking the class over again in order to be competitive. *They are tweaking the process though to include all nursing pre-reqs and limited attempts at each class*

There are somethings that I have thought would be nice to add to the criteria, but here's the problem with some:

CNA/EMT experience - it would have to be true experience and not just the certification. We have an LPN program in the area that requires you to have your CNA and at least half of their applicants only get certified to fulfill the requirement but don't actually work as one. Proving exerience would require faculty to make contact with employers to ensure everyone is being honest. This would be a very time consuming process.

TEAS review sessions - I know I would have definately loved going to a session, free or not, but so would just about every other applicant! Yeah, it may raise my score from a 87 to a 91, but it will raise the score for everyone else as well. All this would do is raise the average from, let's say 90, to a 94++. So it would be just as difficult to obtain a competitive score.

Essay criteria - I'm so glad our program did not have this. It doesn't really mesure anything about an applicant except for who has the best essay writing skills and who knows what to write, not necessarily how they really feel about the topic asked. It would be just one more item to stress out about and pour over, eating up valuable study time that I could be using focusing on a class and getting a good grade instead. That's just me though.

More support from advisors - I definately agree with you there! I must say my pre-nursing advisor was excellent though! If you brought her a transcript littered with As & Bs in the necessary pre-reqs, she's going to tell you to retake those Bs in order to have a chance at getting in. BUT - she also admits out right that if you don't have the gpa to get into the school's program, she will help you explore other programs and find one that will work for you. She isn't just there to help you find out how to get into UVU's program, she is there to help you get into nursing school, period, wherever that may be. I think she is awesome and wish more pre-nursing students had advisors like her :D

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I wonder how The Best do it.

I live right down the road from the Close Cover Before Striking school. Their motto is, "If you've got the money, honey, I've got your degree. It just doesn't transfer anywhere." Then I think of a handful of places with such awesome reps, I'd feel like Cinderella if they called me. Shoot, I'd almost be willing to change my gender to match Cinderella's if doing so would get me in.

I wonder how they pick who gets into "heaven."

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psychiatry.
until they come up with some perfect, "magic" system that will please everyone all of the time, they've opted to go with the system they can't get sued over ...

Isn't it sad it's come down to worrying about lawsuits? :down:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Isn't it sad it's come down to worrying about lawsuits? :down:

Yes -- I'm not sure we're really better off than we were in "the old days."

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU Level III.

Just read the first page of the thread but I'd rather have a smart nurse with a bad attitude than a compassionate/friendly nurse that doesn't know his/her stuff.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

...which begs the question: How many dumb people pass the NCLEX? Then, how many dumb NCLEX passers also fool their employers?

I don't want anymore Nurses or Doctors with bad attitudes.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
...which begs the question: How many dumb people pass the NCLEX? Then, how many dumb NCLEX passers also fool their employers?

I don't want anymore Nurses or Doctors with bad attitudes.

There's obviously no way to get data on how many "dumb" people pass the NCLEX....but folks just need to pass NCLEX, not excel on it. In my opinion, passing NCLEX shows more hard work, than intelligence.

While there's still no reason to think I'd need to make a choice between compassionate and smart (since most smart folks I know are compassionate)....I'd take smart health care practitioners over compassionate any day of the week. I have friends and family who can support me emotionally....however none of them are trained to help me physically.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU.

A nurse with a poor attitude and insufficient compassion could ruin your hospital stay.

A nurse with poor knowledge and insufficient skills could ruin your life.

I'll take bad hopsital stay any day of the week. Of course I would prefer my nurse have both, which has been my experience for myself and most of my family :up:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment