Are LPN's being phased out?

Nurses LPN/LVN

Published

I know people have been saying for years that everyone would need a BSN and LPN's would be a thing of the past, etc. Well, so far, where I work (a large, magnet hospital) there are still many, many nurses without a BSN -but there are veeery few LPN's. I attended a meeting last week where my supervisor was lecturing RNs about signing off on LPN's charts and she mentioned that there are very few LPN's and even mentioned that some of those LPN's are about to graduate to be RN's. I overheard other RNs in the cafeteria complaining about LPN's basically saying, "what's the point when we have to go behind them."

They are definitely being phased out where I work. They aren't hiring LPN's anymore although the ones who are there aren't getting fired or anything. What is it like where you work? Do you think LPN's have a future?

Never said it was. I won't even get into the subject of Ulster.

If you know this then why post about the UK? My original post specifically referred to my own experience in Ireland, therefore your snappy retort about the UK was irrelevant.

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Specializes in Neuro-Surgery, Med-Surg, Home Health.
while i to am tired of hearing this. i still bristle when i hear it. don't know why it irritates me as i truly am the one sitting here not going to school for an rn. (kids grown/etc/etc, no reason not too) i really think i am just on the lazy side when i am home from work and refuse to give nursing another thought! though i am the first in line to learn new things, do something i haven't done before, or challenge myself in other ways, i just don't want to go back to school for some reason. plus it doesn't hurt that most rn's i work with do not make more than a couple of bucks more than i do, so why?

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not the case here in the san francisco bay area though. with all due respect to the lvns, over here rns earn much more than lvns. therefore it is worth going back to school to earn your rn degree for those who plan to work in sf, ca.

many of the rns here (working in large hospitals) with enough seniority now earn as much a $140,000+ per year (nursing supervisors earn over $200,000 per year!). the starting salary for rns is around $95,000 per year. over their entire nursing career, rns can easily out-earn lvns by over $1million!

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
. . .Now I am a case manager and a nurse preceptor in home health care. We employ mostly RNs, PTs, OTs, STs and very few LVNs. We haven't hired a new LVN for quite sometime.

Just telling the facts.

The facts are the only things that matter when people are considering which route to take. There are very few scenarios I can visualize where a staged approach would benefit a person, but there are people who's life circumstances make it imperative that they get out into the workforce as soon as possible - and $18-20/hr at an LTC or PDN job while studying for your RN isn't peanuts when the alternative is the local fast food establishment.

Trust me-- when I suddenly became a single mom the peace of mind having that LVN license gave me was immense. Every nursing hopeful has a unique story to tell. We need to keep our eyes open, and realize that the actions of corporations, or the experiences of one person do not and should never disparage the quality of nursing care we give.

As I mentioned a while back -- there will not be an all RN workforce - it's too expensive. Who will be doing those things that can be delegated? Do they have any education in the nursing process? What kind of liability will the RN have when his or her only helpers have only a few weeks of education? What will the RN:CNA ratio look like on a unit?

I don't think it tells enough of the story to point out (regardless of veracity) that patients have poorer outcomes when an LPN takes care of them. Nobody practices in a bubble.

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this is happening in my area....no one is hiring LPN's.

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The facts are the only things that matter when people are considering which route to take. There are very few scenarios I can visualize where a staged approach would benefit a person, but there are people who's life circumstances make it imperative that they get out into the workforce as soon as possible - and $18-20/hr at an LTC or PDN job while studying for your RN isn't peanuts when the alternative is the local fast food establishment.

Trust me-- when I suddenly became a single mom the peace of mind having that LVN license gave me was immense. Every nursing hopeful has a unique story to tell. We need to keep our eyes open, and realize that the actions of corporations, or the experiences of one person do not and should never disparage the quality of nursing care we give.

As I mentioned a while back -- there will not be an all RN workforce - it's too expensive. Who will be doing those things that can be delegated? Do they have any education in the nursing process? What kind of liability will the RN have when his or her only helpers have only a few weeks of education? What will the RN:CNA ratio look like on a unit?

I don't think it tells enough of the story to point out (regardless of veracity) that patients have poorer outcomes when an LPN takes care of them. Nobody practices in a bubble.

They would be happy to have an all RN workforce if they can dilute the market with enough RNs. Then the LVNs won't get "phased out" (but will defacto) and the RNs will earn alot less.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
They would be happy to have an all RN workforce if they can dilute the market with enough RNs. Then the LVNs won't get "phased out" (but will defacto) and the RNs will earn alot less.

The wages of an RN would have to go unacceptably low levels to justify the time/effort expended to get a BSN when compared to the cost of hiring . . .1 RN and 8 CNAs. I've read quite a few posts from CNAs talking about how they are being trained to do nursing tasks of increasing levels of complexity that would have been unheard of not so long ago.

A common complaint about LPNs is that they can only "gather data" for the RN to assess. We are "task" oriented and not taught the critical thinking skills and NANDA dx the RN has. We can't educate patients or do care plans. Those things are not true (except NANDA dx), but they are true of UAPs.

When bean counters look at it - I believe they will continue to expand the CNA role without giving them a raise, or a nominal raise. Most of them want to learn more advanced procedures.

Based on the attitude of a lot of people I read here, they would not want to spend their time dealing with Code Browns, emptying Foley bags, transferring people in Hoyer lifts, and many of the other basic tasks normally done by CNAs. Some nurses (me included!) love the primary care nurse model and doing everything for their fewer patients. I don't see that happening anymore except in Critical Care units.

I want to emphasize the point that I know many RNs don't differentiate a simple task from a more complex, as all of it is historically the purview of nurses. It's just that in recent years I've seen the reason given drift away from efficiency to an attitude that the better educated nurse is "above" the tasks, as evidenced by nurses saying they call housekeeping to clean a few drops of urine on a toilet rim that was spilled while removing a "hat".

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Specializes in Neuro-Surgery, Med-Surg, Home Health.

as i mentioned a while back -- there will not be an all rn workforce - it's too expensive. who will be doing those things that can be delegated? do they have any education in the nursing process? what kind of liability will the rn have when his or her only helpers have only a few weeks of education? what will the rn:cna ratio look like on a unit?

i don't think it tells enough of the story to point out (regardless of veracity) that patients have poorer outcomes when an lpn takes care of them. nobody practices in a bubble.

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i have news for you, the all-rn workforce is already being phased in, or the all-rn workforce is now a fact in many of the large hospitals here in the san francisco bay area. lvns have been re-assigned and no new lvns are being hired.

it may take some time for the rest of the country to follow our lead, but the fact of the matter is that all-rn workforces will become more and more common in many parts oof the united states.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
as i mentioned a while back -- there will not be an all rn workforce - it's too expensive. who will be doing those things that can be delegated? do they have any education in the nursing process? what kind of liability will the rn have when his or her only helpers have only a few weeks of education? what will the rn:cna ratio look like on a unit?

i don't think it tells enough of the story to point out (regardless of veracity) that patients have poorer outcomes when an lpn takes care of them. nobody practices in a bubble.

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i have news for you, the all-rn workforce is already being phased in, or the all-rn workforce is now a fact in many of the large hospitals here in the san francisco bay area. lvns have been re-assigned and no new lvns are being hired.

it may take some time for the rest of the country to follow our lead, but the fact of the matter is that all-rn workforces will become more and more common in many parts oof the united states.

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i guess cnas need to worry about their jobs too, then. i hadn't heard that hospitals in no cal planned to go to the primary care model across the board. it's especially surprising to hear as california is so far behind the rest of the country in climbing out of this $%#$#$ recession, that they will be paying bsns to to do the baths, linen changes, toileting, etc since some people become rns to avoid that.

how many patients will the rn typically have to do total care on?

and by the way, your "i have news for you" remark was totally unnecessary.

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I guess CNAs need to worry about their jobs too, then. I hadn't heard that hospitals in No Cal planned to go to the primary care model across the board. It's especially surprising to hear as California is so far behind the rest of the country in climbing out of this $%#$#$ recession, that they will be paying BSNs to to do the baths, linen changes, toileting, etc since some people become RNs to avoid that.

How many patients will the RN typically have to do total care on?

And by the way, your "I have news for you" remark was totally unnecessary.

Why do things always descend to petty vernacular on this site? The truth is we dont know whats going to happen with nursing. If the quality of the job decreases, wages are diluted, and the economy then booms there will be multiple eject buttons pushed out of nursing...LVN/LPNs especially with experience will be NEEDED. I am a BSN and I see this because its a simple law of supply and demand. Every time supply appears to satisfy demand, the accrediting bodies and hospitals will choose nurses with more education etc and things will be socially darwinistic so to speak. Right now, most nurses are over 50 yrs old in this country....and this does not bode well for a sustained supply. Lets not forget the 09/10/11 grads who will never find work....they will leave nursing if they can't work. They need to feed their families who the heck can blame them. The hospitals are a business and like the govt look out for their own best interests.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

Yes - those that staff healthcare facilities will always look for the best bang for the buck and measure that against how far they can push the safety envelope. All of it is speculation. I've never said otherwise. I disagree that I've used petty vernacular. If someone starts a post out with "I have news for you . ." and I call it out - sorry if you think that's petty. I don't.

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Yes - those that staff healthcare facilities will always look for the best bang for the buck and measure that against how far they can push the safety envelope. All of it is speculation. I've never said otherwise. I disagree that I've used petty vernacular. If someone starts a post out with "I have news for you . ." and I call it out - sorry if you think that's petty. I don't.

I wasnt referring to you but the "I have news for you" person sorry lol

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I wasnt referring to you but the "I have news for you" person sorry lol

It's OK. True meaning can get lost pretty easily here on the internets :)

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