Anyone know if the PA BON will join the uprising?

strengthcouragewisdm · Oct 7, 2008

Just keep in mind that Excelsior is NOT ONLY for LPN's. We are all medical professionals who are able to complete the program and obtain licensure as RN's. Yes I agree that LPN's are well respected, but so are the 50% (or more) completed traditional nursing students, the RT's, PA's, paramedics, and all of the other groups who comprise Excelsior nursing students.

I am a GA student affected by the recent legislature which prohibits GA grads (like me) from being licensed in the state where I live. So if it were my choice (and I am sure that most if not all of the other recent graduates affected will agree) to complete precepted supervised clinicals so that we can become licensed in the great state of GA, then I would do it without blinking an eye and in a heartbeat! At this point, I am willing to do additionally whatever it takes to work as a professional RN in the state where I live. However on the other hand, if the GABON doesn't allow us to endorse into GA, then I am also making preperations to begin my nursing career elsewhere.

What has transpired in GA can happen in ANY state at any given time, so please don't think that it can't happen to you. So on that note, I have participated in supervised clinicals at a traditional RN program, and NEVER have I encounterd any RN behaving inappropiately towards a student. We we always embraced and encouraged. I am not certain what your experiences were in LPN school, but don't allow this to affect your line of thought in regards to the possiblility of participating in supervised clinicals. There are quite a few state BON's and NCSBN that have issues with the model of Excelsior's pre licensure program. With this being the case, there may have to be changes implemented to incorporate structured, supervised clinical experiences to satisfy the BON's requirements. If not other students, like you, will be facing what we are in GA. :nurse:

redheadmommy05 · Oct 7, 2008

I saw RN and LPN students belittled everyday for the year i was at the hospital, nursing home and ever other place we had clinicals. Some nurses have a tendency to eat their young. Not all of the RNs training students are like this but all you need is piece of trash to stink up a room (or a med surg floor). If the GA balony goes on in PA I will definitely be outraged but i have other plans up my sleeve. I will just work for the VA a little sooner than expected. I am a veteran and want to work with veterans to reform the VA healthcare system, mainly the mental health aspect. I was just hoping to get more experience in the civilian medical and psychiatric fields and get my BSN and MSN before switching over to a government job i will most likely spend the rest of my career doing.

I understand the fact that Excelsior students are not all LPNs, I am just stating the fact that the ones that are LPNs feel jaded by the BONs.(like me) After all these are same BONs that issued our LPN licenses on the knowledge that we are safe competent nurses but if we get our RN with Excelsior that somehow makes us all potentially unsafe nurses??? Somehow with my Excelsior RN license i will forget all my skills and become a bumbling idiot that puts patients in harms way? On the clinical aspect I have being working as a nurse for a year and previously had formal supervised clinical in LPN school for a year. I know that is not a long time but I would put my skills up against a traditional two year ASN student at any time. I was trained along side RN students during clinicals and they were doing the exact same procedures the LPN students were doing.

If they introduce clinical time to the Excelsior program i hope they take away the CPNE because having both would be overkill. Maybe they do need to revamp the Excelsior program but if they do then they still need to introduce a LPN fast track program so the LPNS are not stuck taking the same amount of clinical hours as a student who is not a working nurse. Nursing is a learning field, we are always learning on the job. The clinical repeats i would be forced to take now in a traditional RN program will be obsolete in 20 years but if i continue to work in the field i will grow and learn as medical advancements are made.

Excelsior does have a program for LPNs called Project Leap at my local hospital. The students work and learn at the hospital 5 days a week for a year with staff supervisors as they get their RN Excelsior degree. I am not sure if this counts as clinical yet but it seems as if Excelsior is trying out new things. The students still have to take the CPNE though. It is a great idea but requires you to work at that hospital for 5 years after you graduate at a prequoted rate or you will owe them the 30,000 dollars or more they paid you during that year for wages and college classes.

I really do think that these issues with the state BONs are somewhat money related. Excelsior is taking A LOT of money and potential students away from state and community colleges. I don't think we should hand out RN licenses like free give aways but banning RN Excelsior grads from working in a state that were already medical professionals (especially LPNs) is a little silly.

visiting · Oct 7, 2008

"I saw RN and LPN students belittled everyday for the year i was at the hospital, nursing home and ever other place we had clinicals."

Sounds horrible and unprofessional of them to treat students that way.

Did you attend the LPN school at Wilson College (I know it isn't run by Wilson)?

I don't know why they and Mont Alto (I'm guessing that's where the RN students you mentioned came from) would allow their students to be treated that way. And it's short-sighted of the clinics to allow their employees to treat students like that, students who are their possible future employees.

I read your other posts on the main page and congratulations on having career goals that are moving ahead. Best wishes.

redheadmommy05 · Oct 7, 2008

Thanks visiting. Are you from this area? I did go to the LPN school at Wilson college. FCCTC rents space on the campus for their LPN program. The majority of the RN students were from Penn State Mont Alto and a couple were from HACC Gettysburg.

visiting · Oct 7, 2008

I live about 30-40 min. from Wilson, and have received the FCCTC information but have not made a decision yet. It's interesting to read your experiences, like your LPN clinical training compared to the Mont Alto ASN program.

Other than the treatment of students during clinicals, how did you like FCCTC?

Maryland does not accept Excelsior for those licensed in MD, but I wonder if they accept it from a RN transferring a license from PA to MD. This area is so closeby MD.

Pipsqueak, ADN · Oct 8, 2008

i understand the fact that excelsior students are not all lpns, i am just stating the fact that the ones that are lpns feel jaded by the bons.(like me) after all these are same bons that issued our lpn licenses on the knowledge that we are safe competent nurses but if we get our rn with excelsior that somehow makes us all potentially unsafe nurses??? somehow with my excelsior rn license i will forget all my skills and become a bumbling idiot that puts patients in harms way? on the clinical aspect i have being working as a nurse for a year and previously had formal supervised clinical in lpn school for a year. i know that is not a long time but i would put my skills up against a traditional two year asn student at any time. i was trained along side rn students during clinicals and they were doing the exact same procedures the lpn students were doing.

i completely agree. this whole thing has me shaking my head. we are already nurses with tons and tons of clinical experience. i speak only in the perspective of an lpn, because i don't know what kind of experience others that are in the program (such as emt, etc) have and how similar their experience is to that of nursing. nor do i care because they obviously have had patient interaction of some sort, completed and passed all of the required nursing exams, and completed the dreaded cpne. the real learning begins on the floor anyway for every nurse regardless of the program where you obtained your degree.

i really do think that these issues with the state bons are somewhat money related. excelsior is taking a lot of money and potential students away from state and community colleges..

i'm not sure how this could be money related. i don't think excelsior is "taking away" any potential students. i could see if the nursing schools weren't filled to capacity but as it is there is not enough slots to accomadate all the potential nursing students. students are being turned away left and right. if anything excelsior is the perfect way to alleviate some of the "shortage" issues.

redheadmommy05 · Oct 8, 2008

I live about 30-40 min. from Wilson, and have received the FCCTC information but have not made a decision yet. It's interesting to read your experiences, like your LPN clinical training compared to the Mont Alto ASN program.
Other than the treatment of students during clinicals, how did you like FCCTC?
Maryland does not accept Excelsior for those licensed in MD, but I wonder if they accept it from a RN transferring a license from PA to MD. This area is so closeby MD.

I really liked the program and the instructors. I graduated with the August class. You can start in August or February, i think we started with a class of 28 and graduated 23. Most left because of hardship issues but we did have three students that just could not handle the program. (all three of them had just gotten out of high school that June) Our youngest student was 18 and our oldest was in her 40s so the program has a lot of variety.

The only thing i disliked is the fact that it is a certificate program so you can not transfer credits if you decide to get your RN at a college later. I had A&P with them and now i have to take it again for my ASN because i didn't earn actual credits for it. The program takes a year to complete and you go to school all day like you would in high school, it is pretty fast paced. I received federal pell grants and federal loans for the program, so it is eligible for federal aid. They have a way to get the state to pay for your books and uniforms. I didn't pay a cent for my books and i use alot of them now (A&P, MedSurg and Maternity) for my Excelsior degree. I worked on the weekends, had a nine month old and still did very well in the program.

Excelsior is supposedly working with MD on the issue, so maybe they will change their rules in the near future. I emailed them last week about Excelsior and they have not responded yet. :crying2: Let me know what you decide to do!!!!!

visiting · Oct 8, 2008

redheadmommy, thank you for sharing and for your interest. I've thought about doing college instead of a certificate program, but with the pre-requisites, it would take more time, and there's the cost of the pre-req's. I figure there are employers who help with education expenses if later as a LPN I would want to go on to RN. I'm an older mom and don't know how this will work out as a career so don't want to invest a lot of years and money right at the beginning.

If you get a reply from MD about Excelsior, please post it.

I know a woman who got her LPN from FCCTC years ago and recently got her RN from Mont Alto. They gave her credit for the first semester of clinicals and she tested out of the second semester of clinicals. She did have to take pre-req's as well.

txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN · Oct 8, 2008

i am so confused. why would anyone want to do clinicals for a year for ec when the whole point is using your experience as the basis for not having to do clincias....

excelsior does have a program for lpns called project leap at my local hospital. the students work and learn at the hospital 5 days a week for a year with staff supervisors as they get their rn excelsior degree. i am not sure if this counts as clinical yet but it seems as if excelsior is trying out new things. the students still have to take the cpne though. it is a great idea but requires you to work at that hospital for 5 years after you graduate at a prequoted rate or you will owe them the 30,000 dollars or more they paid you during that year for wages and college classes.
i really do think that these issues with the state bons are somewhat money related. excelsior is taking a lot of money and potential students away from state and community colleges. i don't think we should hand out rn licenses like free give aways but banning rn excelsior grads from working in a state that were already medical professionals (especially lpns) is a little silly.

Editorial Team / Moderator · Oct 8, 2008

I am so confused. Why would anyone want to do clinicals for a year for EC when the whole point is using your experience as the basis for not having to do clincias....

I would not be happy if I had to do clinicals AND the CPNE. Yikes! I can see what she's describing as being great practice for the CPNE, though.

redheadmommy05 · Oct 9, 2008

i am so confused. why would anyone want to do clinicals for a year for ec when the whole point is using your experience as the basis for not having to do clincias....

the basis of their "work" clinicals at chambersburg hospital is so they can continue to be hospital employees and practice their skills. i believe that the students get paid 15 dollars an hour 40 hours a week. it may be more but i am not sure??? i didn't look into it much after i found out you had to work 5 years for the hospital after completing the program since they are paying for your excelsior education and paying you full time wages. if it doesn't count as clinical i would rather not do it. i get paid much more to work 3 12s at my normal job and go to school. even if excelsior added clinical time at the local hospitals where we all live with preceptors like isu does i still think excelsior's rn program would still be a lot less time consuming and less expensive for the non traditional students that are medical professionals to complete than a community college or university rn program. but....... i still think it is a slap in the face to be told by certain bons that i need clinical practice like the new rn students who have not laid a hand on a patient before. :rolleyes: