Anyone admitted to PhD program this fall?

m4howie, ADN, BSN · Mar 24, 2019

I'm in the process of looking at schools. I am curious if you have a BSN or a MSN. I currently have a BSN and am considering getting a masters in Public Health or Informatics before getting a PdD. Quite a few PhD programs are fully funded but you have to complete them in 3 years. Going from BSN to PhD, that is a lot credits in short period of time. I feel more comfortable going from MSN to Phd in three years. I am also curious if the schools you applied to are online or do you plan on moving?

saheckler, PhD, RN · Mar 24, 2019

8 hours ago, m4howie said:
I'm in the process of looking at schools. I am curious if you have a BSN or a MSN. I currently have a BSN and am considering getting a masters in Public Health or Informatics before getting a PdD. Quite a few PhD programs are fully funded but you have to complete them in 3 years. Going from BSN to PhD, that is a lot credits in short period of time. I feel more comfortable going from MSN to Phd in three years. I am also curious if the schools you applied to are online or do you plan on moving?

Hi! I do not have a master’s so I’m doing BSN-PhD. I was unwilling to pay thousands of dollars for a master’s degree when I could go straight through to PhD with full funding and a stipend.

I was worried about three years being very short, especially without having a master’s already but after looking closely at programs I decided it’s not a big issue. I would encourage you to reach out to schools you’re interested in and see if they really do require students to finish in three years. I think while many schools aim for students to be done in three years, they’re not typically booting people out the door if they need more time.

A lot of schools will offer funding for 2-3 years so you will want to talk with schools about how their students fund their 3rd year (and beyond, if needed) and see what kind of support they have for students writing grants and what their success rate is for students receiving grants (an F31, for example).

There are certain funding mechanisms that may require you to finish in 3 years (I believe T32s typically have this stipulation), but even then I don’t know if they’d kick you out if you weren’t finished; you just might have to find alternative funding for the remainder of your time (I would double check on this though, just to be sure).

Some of this may be variable from school to school, but I think you are likely to find some options that you feel good about even without having your MSN. It also seems to me that many PhD programs don’t necessarily build on an MSN curriculum and many programs put all PhD students through the same core courses and require the same number of credits, regardless of whether or not they have a master’s (because an MSN isn’t typically focused on research, whereas the PhD is all about research). So, you wouldn’t necessarily feel behind or be fitting in extra courses into the same amount of time.

I hope this makes sense and is helpful for you! Good luck as you explore your options and let me know if you have more questions!

m4howie, ADN, BSN · Mar 26, 2019

I am in MN and one of my instructors for my ANS is now a professor at the University of MN. She is encouraging me to apply to their program and I have spoken to their admissions department which is where I learned about the funding. However, their office had a major transition and no one had been there for more than a year. I was unable to get a clear answer on what happens funding wise if you need additional semesters. I 100% agree about most "MSN" degree credits not transferring into PhD program. In my situation I looked at all the people working in the field that I want and I am not kidding you when I say 95% have a Masters in Public Health + something else like lawyer or doctor. Also none of them are nurses. My work will pay for the masters. My old professor pointed out that some students will get the PhD first and then go back and get a second degree because the Phd reduces the required credits. I guess that is also an option. I just don't want to be in a situation where I take funding and life happens and I end up in debt with no degree. That would be heart breaking. I am glad you posted your question. I just looked at the number of credits having a masters knocks off and it is only a 12 credit difference. That means having a masters only knocks off about a semester at most. I have to thinking to do. If you don't mind me asking, what schools did you apply to? Are you looking at online programs?

saheckler, PhD, RN · Mar 27, 2019

That is amazing that your work will pay for your master's! That's really a game changer. It definitely makes your decision trickier since you have more than one good option.

Have you talked with the director of the PhD program? They might be able to help you weigh some pros and cons between your options, talk you through funding, etc. If you think you can support yourself on the stipend (most schools do around $24,000 a year, in addition to covering your tuition/fees, health insurance, etc.) then you're unlikely to need to take on debt. A lot of programs will also give you a master's degree after you've successfully completed your coursework, so if you're able to hang in there at least until then you will still come out ahead. (Apologies if this is all stuff you're already aware of; it sounds like you've already researched your options).

What is your area of interest? I'm intrigued since you said most people in your area have an MPH and are often doctors or lawyers but not nurses.

University of MN is a great school; I seriously considered applying there but ultimately my research interests fit better with some other schools. I applied to Columbia, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, Michigan, University of Illinois Chicago, and Penn. I didn't consider online programs because it was important to me to have in person interaction with mentors and peers and my wife and I are excited to move to a new city.

I'll be eager to hear what you end up deciding!

m4howie, ADN, BSN · Mar 28, 2019

Background 1) I worked in health insurance processing claims, approving prior authorizations, and educated people about their benefit package 2) I worked as an RN at drug treatment facility where I spent my day trying to get insurance companies to cover longer stays and certain medications 3) I had a situation where my dental insurance would not cover a teeth cleaning until the claim was denied by my medical insurance. It took months to get the claim paid 4) Current theory is that over utilization of the ER is one factor driving up healthcare costs.

One day I had the thought that all of these people newly covered by the affordable healthcare act don't know how to use insurance and will continue to use the ER. How do we get people in general to understand when to schedule with a clinic, urgent care, or go to the ER. This has been in my mind for several years. Recently I found an article about health insurance literacy. I want to work for the National Institute of Health (NIH) and create some national level initiative to educate people about insurance. Example: When I got pink eye I called my doctor and a RX was sent to the pharmacy. I bypassed his office, urgent care, and the ER. My friend got pink eye and lost hours out of his day in the ER AND who knows if he even spread it to someone else. Friend is an ER nurse and told me a patient who comes in several times a year via ambulance with an asthma attack. That how she refills hers RX. She gets d/c from the ER with an inhaler and when it runs out she comes back for another. When I looked at any researcher on an article close to this topic the have a MPH + something else. Most employees at the NIH have a MPH and a degree in something else. One component to Public Health is behavior medication of a group of people. This is directly in alignment with what is need for my PhD so that is why it is a big consideration in my plan.

I noticed that the closer a school is to Washington DC the more likely it is to have ties to the NIH via grants, scholarships, or faculty. Considering that is where I want to work that connection is important to me. The U of MN doesn't have that. Schools like Columbia, Penn State, and John Hopkins do. I just bought a house so I am not looking to move. I have been focusing on online programs so far. Out of all the faculty at the U of MN, I didn't really find anyone researching anything close to what I want to explore. I have looked at all the schools you applied to. They all have a lot to offer.

saheckler, PhD, RN · Apr 1, 2019

@m4howie that is such an interesting research area and definitely an area where nursing input is needed. If you haven't found any nurses in that field yet, then there's definitely a hole to fill there.

I think you're right that a lot of the East Coast schools have closer ties with NIH funding, etc. I hope you're able to find a good match that won't require you to move. Columbia and Hopkins don't have online nursing PhD programs, but maybe Penn State does (I don't know anything about their program). I'm sure you will find a good solution; I know there are a lot of online PhD programs out there and it's likely that there are several with solid NIH ties and faculty doing something related to your interests who could mentor you.

Best wishes to you as you decide what to do for your next step!

m4howie, ADN, BSN · Apr 4, 2019

Thanks, Have you decided on a school?

saheckler, PhD, RN · Apr 5, 2019

Headed to Columbia this fall!

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Apr 6, 2019

On 3/28/2019 at 12:28 AM, m4howie said:
I noticed that the closer a school is to Washington DC the more likely it is to have ties to the NIH via grants, scholarships, or faculty. Considering that is where I want to work that connection is important to me. The U of MN doesn't have that. Schools like Columbia, Penn State, and John Hopkins do. I just bought a house so I am not looking to move. I have been focusing on online programs so far. Out of all the faculty at the U of MN, I didn't really find anyone researching anything close to what I want to explore. I have looked at all the schools you applied to. They all have a lot to offer.

Actually, distance from DC doesn't impact the amount of NIH (NINR) funding. The NIH used to publish an annual ranking of nursing schools with the highest NIH funding for research. The list includes school from both coasts, the midwest, south, etc. The big names typically pull large NIH funding dollars regardless of location, it's not just the ones on the East Coast.

University of Arizona has a PhD in Nursing program with didactics offered online but requires frequent on campus visits. They are lower than most big names for NIH funding though (less than a million last year). Your best bet in the Midwest is Univeristy of Michigan which is a big name in nursing research with almost 3 million in NIH funding last year. Their program is not online but campus visits may not be as often as you think.

https://www.report.nih.gov/award/index.cfm#tab2

https://www.nursing.arizona.edu/phd

https://nursing.umich.edu/academics/phd

mecha-sorah · Apr 19, 2019

Hi. Im interested in the PhD route. I have two published articles while in undergrad, one of which I am the first author. I'm looking to apply either this year or next year. Im interested in health disparities, rural populations, cardiac disease and depression. My publications are not related to my research interest. Schools I'm interested in include UNC, UCLA, UCSF, Columbia, Upenn, Yale.

I got into the MPH program at a number 2 ranked according to US News. Im debating if I should do this route and then go straight into the PhD (to make my app stronger) or if I should just go directly to PhD. THe MPH will be payed by my employer 100 percent but that will require me to be part time work -24 hours 12 hr shifts and M-F classes

Also how strict are they on GRE? I took mine five years ago and it was 65 percent.

Thoughts anyone?

saheckler, PhD, RN · Apr 23, 2019

On 4/18/2019 at 8:04 PM, mecha-sorah said:
Hi. Im interested in the PhD route. I have two published articles while in undergrad, one of which I am the first author. I'm looking to apply either this year or next year. Im interested in health disparities, rural populations, cardiac disease and depression. My publications are not related to my research interest. Schools I'm interested in include UNC, UCLA, UCSF, Columbia, Upenn, Yale.
I got into the MPH program at a number 2 ranked according to US News. Im debating if I should do this route and then go straight into the PhD (to make my app stronger) or if I should just go directly to PhD. THe MPH will be payed by my employer 100 percent but that will require me to be part time work -24 hours 12 hr shifts and M-F classes
Also how strict are they on GRE? I took mine five years ago and it was 65 percent.
Thoughts anyone?

Hi @mecha-sorah! It's wonderful that you already have publications, especially with one as first author. That will help make your application more competitive, even if unrelated to your research interests. It's really important to craft a narrative in your essays that links your experiences, why you want a PhD, why you chose your topic of interest, and your career goals, but you can still do that if your publications don't match with your research interests. You just have to be a little creative and weave everything into neat package.

I applied to several of the schools you listed (UCSF, Columbia, and Penn) and also considered UNC, UCLA, and Yale, though I didn't apply. Those are all fantastic programs.

It's great that you got into a high ranking MPH program and that your employer will pay! An MPH may help you hone your research interests (which is important for getting into competitive programs), build your statistical and research methods knowledge, help you learn more about your areas of interest and population of interest, etc.

If you are only considering the MPH to strengthen your PhD application, I would recommend talking to some PhD admissions staff and PhD directors at the schools you're interested in to find out if you're already a competitive applicant based on your experiences, GPA, GRE, how fleshed out your research interests are, etc. If you are already a competitive applicant, then you may not need to get your MPH first and you just have to decide if you need/want the tools that you would gain from an MPH prior to going into your PhD. A PhD program advisor or a nursing faculty member (especially one with an MPH and/or who has similar research interests to yours) may be able to help talk you through what is the best decision for you.

In terms of the GRE, 65th percentile should put you in good shape, but your scores have to be within the last 5 years (although some schools, like UCSF, don’t require GRE scores). It sounds like you may need to retake them because of how much time has passed.

Best of luck as you decide which next step to take! You probably can’t make a wrong decision.

Anyone admitted to PhD program this fall?

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