Andrea Yates R.N.

Published

Did you know that Andrea Yates, the woman who is now being re-tried for drowning her 5 children in Texas was a nurse? I just thought it was interesting.

This case, and other cases in many states, are not, in my opinion, handled appropriately. With the history to harm herself or others, her case would be better handled by those who deal with patients who commit criminal offenses-in forensic psychiatric facilities.

I was under the impression that prior to this latest case, her case had been handled by civil facilities-public or private. In my opinion, civil facilities are not staffed or prepared for forensic clients and furthermore, these patients should not be foisted onto patients and staff in civil facilities. Civil admissions do not need court orders from criminal courts for admissions regarding criminal offenses. These forensic patients usually have a history of violent behavior.

Typically these criminal pre-trial committed patients are admitted for a period of four to eight weeks to determine competency and/or productivity (whether or not they committed the offense as a result of their mental status). Forensic staff are adept in assessing sociopathic or psychopathic personality disorders, or more often, the paranoid schizophrenic cases.

Very few states have comprehensive forensic psychiatric hospitals. This is a problem because then when civil facilities try to handle these cases, there is a problem in assessing potential for future violence. It is also a problem when the forensic patient is removed from the supervision of the criminal courts.

There is a tendency in civil facilities to release such prisoner-patients before they have worked their way through the system--from a status of mentally incompetent or maximum security, to medium security, to minimum security and finally to be considered for conditional release.

In my opinion, the court system should continue to supervise those who are committed for treatment. Their sentences should be indeterminate. The Judges should supervise their cases and it should be up to the prisoner-patient to prove to the court that their treatment has advanced so that they can be considered for movement to the next privilege level. Moving from one level to another typically takes several years-if not decades.

Even while in a conditional release status, the court maintains jurisdiction over the case. Failure to adhere to the out-patient appointments or failure to adhere to therapeutic medication levels is interpreted as a breach of the conditional release and the court can issue a bench warrant for arrest and return to the criminal justice system.

The above described system has been employed in Washington, DC since the assasination of President Garfield! DC has rarely had a premature release. The Judges of the DC Superior Court and the US District Court are aware that prior behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. The Judges are ever mindfull of those in the community. Our civilian population should be able to live without fear that forensic patients can be released too early. Indeed when bench warrents are obtained, they are served by the US Marshals!

Personnel who work in forensic facilities should be considered a part of the law enforcement system and thus should have law enforcement retirement systems. Indeed these personnel are responsible for the continued confinement at the forensic facility or otherwise under their care for other medical care (for example, intermittent visits to such facilities’ as Dr. Berlin's clinic at Johns Hopkins for sexual psychopaths, etc.). Forensic psychiatric personnel are able to retire after 20 years of service. Take my word for it-you don't want to stay employed in this field after age 55-57. New admissions are often less than 40 years old and continue violent patterns while they remain in confinement.

In this case, I was aware that she was seen by Park Dietz, MD, PhD, but he saw her for the prosecution and not for any visits prior to the offense in question.

As health care personnel, we should make our legislators aware that each state needs and deserves forensic psychiatric facilities so that mentally ill offenders can receive the care they deserve, and the public can be better protected from premature releases of forensic clients. We as health care personnel also need to be afforded better resources and status when we work with mentally ill criminals.

This is not a field for beginners! Nursing personnel who enter this field as a

career may also receive advanced preparation in such fields as administrative law, criminal law, physical and chemical restraints, substance abuse and corrections. Indeed several of the forensic psychiatrists also obtain a law degree.

US Govt.-Ret.

Specializes in ER (new), Respitory/Med Surg floor.
Here's a good short summary of the case.

http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm

Any justice out there for her ex-husband Rusty? Let's just say I'm not fond of him and find him morally reprehensible.

My thoughts too about her husband! No one was there but saw him on some interviews. Seemed cold and aware as per his statements of his wife's condition yet didn't seem to really act to better the situation. But as I said we weren't there. Reguardless VERY sad case.

Specializes in ER (new), Respitory/Med Surg floor.
I also believe that her husband has more to answer for than her; as he seemingly ignored and exacerbated all her symptoms.

He should be in jail, she should be in psychiatric care for as long as she needs.

Sigh.. no he did NOT ignore. He tried to get help, keep her on her meds.

There were times where he begged for her to be hospitalized. One place he got her in to put her in "addiction group therapy"

Sorry, I don't agree that he should go to jail. He did what he knew to do.

I don't know. I'm being totally judgemental but the interviews I watched with him he just seemed cold. His 5 children were killed and he appeared nonchalant about it. Maybe it was some time later but his manerisms just didn't vibe with me. But everyone is different.

If she was so "sick" that she didn't realize what she was doing was wrong, then why did she call the police after she completed her actions?

You're trying to apply rational thinking to a psychotic. There is no rationality in a psychotic person's mind.

The reason we know Andrea Yates' name is because this is such a rare occurence. She is clearly as psychotic as they come.

I agree with u..I think she was out her mind...and I always thought that her husband should be held responisble in a way...is she was so sick, he should have done something to help her.

Sigh.. no he did NOT ignore. He tried to get help, keep her on her meds.

There were times where he begged for her to be hospitalized. One place he got her in to put her in "addiction group therapy"

Sorry, I don't agree that he should go to jail. He did what he knew to do.

I don't know. I'm being totally judgemental but the interviews I watched with him he just seemed cold. His 5 children were killed and he appeared nonchalant about it. Maybe it was some time later but his manerisms just didn't vibe with me. But everyone is different.

Sort of like the "Scott Peterson look", after Lacy went missing?

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Specializes in ER (new), Respitory/Med Surg floor.
I don't know. I'm being totally judgemental but the interviews I watched with him he just seemed cold. His 5 children were killed and he appeared nonchalant about it. Maybe it was some time later but his manerisms just didn't vibe with me. But everyone is different.

Sort of like the "Scott Peterson look", after Lacy went missing?

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Wow! Yea exactly! That look! However who knows what realy was in his head or really what went on.

Specializes in ER (new), Respitory/Med Surg floor.

Sorry everyone! I realize when I quote people with quotes inside already it mixes up who quoted what so it's kindof mixed up with who started what!

Specializes in Acute Med, Pediatric Hematology-Oncology.

the sad thing is no one really knows what was going through his mind. he was not there when it happened, so he couldnt have stopped it that day. and this is a free society. he may not have done anything, he may have supported her going off the meds...but did he physically hide/destroy the meds when she had them? no. my mom supported my dads decision not to go through chemotherapy. if he had died, would she have been responsible for his death? not at all.

yes, he's scum of the earth. yes, he should have been more responsible. but i think that you would have a hard time convicting him as an accessory to murder based on what we know.

also, for the record i have somewhat changed my opinion based on some well thought out and articulate posts. i originally stated that andrea yates should is still culpable for her actions, despite psychosis. however, i have to now say that if she was in a state of psychosis and did not know the ramifications of her actions, then she is not necessarily culpable. this is not to say she should be allowed to go free. rather, i believe she would be better off in a psychiatric facility as opposed to the prison system. in prison, she's not going to get the help and the treatment she needs.

Specializes in ER (new), Respitory/Med Surg floor.
the sad thing is no one really knows what was going through his mind. he was not there when it happened, so he couldnt have stopped it that day. and this is a free society. he may not have done anything, he may have supported her going off the meds...but did he physically hide/destroy the meds when she had them? no. my mom supported my dads decision not to go through chemotherapy. if he had died, would she have been responsible for his death? not at all.

yes, he's scum of the earth. yes, he should have been more responsible. but i that andrea yates should is still culpable for her actions, despite psychosis. think that you would have a hard time convicting him as an accessory to murder based on what we know.

I never meant any legal action against the husband just he seemed odd and made me wonder but there's no way to know anything. I just thought he was strange. No proof to back anything.

Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.

I think it would be difficult to prosecute Rusty Yates based on the law as it is written. That's not the same as thinking that he shouldn't be prosecuted. As far as I'm concerned, he puts those children in the line of fire and should pay for it.

Specializes in Family Practice and General Medical.

In my opinion, and I admit I do not know the specific facts of the case, Andrea Yates was psychotic. Deeply disturbed and possibly schizophrenic. I can't even imagine a mother having the ability to turn on her own children and systematically kill them one by one unless she had a complete psychotic break. That said, I do not believe that she should be released. Unless she was going to spend the rest of her life in a secure mental hospital, she should remain in jail. Society needs to be protected from her.

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