Admissions Strictly By the Numbers

fmrnicumom · Aug 12, 2007

Several nursing programs around here use a "numbers system" of sorts. It is somewhat frustrating, but I understand they have to find a process that works for the school. I know that one in particular has over 2000 applicants for 160 spots. They changed to a points system so they could choose the top applicants. I agree that just going by numbers won't necessarily give the best nurses, but they have to choose somehow. I know most schools are short on faculty so it may be that the ones using a more numbers based approach for acceptance just don't have enough resources to interview every applicant.

I know that every time I've applied for a job, the ones I've gotten are the ones where I spoke to someone when I handed in my application. Granted, we're not talking anything more than summer jobs, but I felt reasonably confident I would get the job if I could speak to someone. I'm a little nervous about my acceptance right now as well, because none of the places I've applied do interviews. One takes letters of recommendation, but that's it.

Good luck to you! When should you hear if you've been accepted?

Tiffany

Skeletor · Aug 12, 2007

That's it. No essay, no interview, no letters of recommendation. Just numbers

LoriS,

I think the main reasons many admissions faculty shy away from using essays as a factor in acceptance decisions is because an essay can become such a subjective item to analyze and compare with other applicants. Also, some students may excel in essay-writing and not necessarily make the best nursing students or nurses for that matter. What I mean by that is what some administrators in these nursing schools sometimes care most about is their school's NCLEX passing rate (I'm speaking in general terms).

On interviewing, it is very time-consuming obviously, to devote staffing to sitting down with the droves of possible candidates to discuss the students' reason for choosing nursing as their profession.

In regards to letters of recommendations, again this is an area that can become very subjective and monotonous. Of course whomever a student chooses to fabricate their recommendation letter will inevitably make his/her student/employee shine like a star, but in the end it could become very complicated to pick who really stand outs in this particular aspect of the decision-making process. Again, it can be very subjective.

I hope my post can provide you with some insight as to why many colleges are unable (or unwilling) to defect from their current method of sorting through the pool of candidates. What it all comes down to is streamlining their individual selection process. Good luck in your current and future endeavors.

txnursingqt · Aug 12, 2007

I know one of the schools here that uses the point system to narrow down the search. Those that make the cut off are then put into a pool and are all interviewed and they make their decisions from there.

Personally I would rather just have them go strictly by numbers. I don't really want to have to worry about doing an interview. It takes up too much of my time also and I feel that my grades speak for themselves. I am applying to too many schools to have to worry about interviewing at all of them.

But that is just my opinion. :nuke:

PeachyERNurse, BSN, RN · Aug 12, 2007

My school only looks at overall GPA. No admissions test, no science GPA, no nothing else. I think it's ridiculous to assume that someone with a 4.0 overall GPA who padded their GPA with easy classes will make a better nurse than someone with a 3.0 who took really hard classes like Physics, Biochem, etc. Just my 2 cents.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Aug 12, 2007

I am going to be applying to 4 or 5 nursing programs in the coming months. As I check out their admissions requirements, I am dismayed by the fact that some of them have a strict numerical ranking system that doesn't leave much room for the applicant to "shine", if you know what I mean. For example, my local CC uses the following criteria:
30% HESI A2 Reading Comprehension
30% HESI A2 Overall Score
40% GPA in science pre-reqs.
That's it. No essay, no interview, no letters of recommendation. Just numbers. If I make the numbers, I'm good. If not, I'm not good. They couldn't care less that I have lots of experience dealing with real patients who have real illnesses. They couldn't care less that I have 2 advanced degrees. Frankly, they couldn't care less why I want to be a nurse!! I kept reading the application folder checklist over and over, thinking I must have just missed the checkbox for letters of recommendation, or an essay!!! :)
Some of the schools I'll be applying to *do* want essays, interviews and letters of recommendation, and they don't have such strict numerical scoring of applicants (or maybe they do, but they aren't so upfront about it). But others are like the one I have described above.
I would love to hear what other people's experiences have been, and what you think about "Admissions Strictly By the Numbers". Mind you, I know there's nothing I can do about this, and I know we all have to follow the rules; I was wondering if anyone else felt kind of dismayed by this process.
I cringed when I went to the Evolve/Elsevier website (the company that makes up the HESI A2 test), and saw the following quote on a page aimed at nursing school faculty: "It's never been easier to make your admission decisions!" Yep, just feed in the numbers into the spreadsheet and out come all your admittees. No need to ever actually sit and talk with an applicant again. LOL

Bold emphasis above is my own. I guess I have a different perspective. Those running the nursing programs have far more experience with identifying successful prospective nursing students that we do. As with most things, I'm sure there are other concerns behind the scenes as well that we wouldn't think of.

I emphasized in bold your statement about being good or not because that raised a red flag for me. If you are not accepted, it does not mean you are not "good." It means there were many applicants and you did not make the cut-off. In another year, with another applicant pool, you might have. So I guess I'm trying to say -- try to abstain from personalizing the process. It's a numbers game, and things change from year to year.

I do understand the frustration, though. I'm on two ADN wait-lists, and I'm applying to two BSN programs.

Chantels1 · Aug 13, 2007

Our cc doesn't even have a system like this. Their only requirement is that you have a 2.5 or better in the science classes and have finished all the pre-req's before applying. Then you are put on the wait list. The waitlist ranges from 1-2 years. Maybe they are afraid they won't get enough applicants if they change the admittance to something a little more merit based? I don't know, but for those of us who work hard to get where we want to be, it is very frustrating to have to sit and wait with all of those who skip class just because they don't feel like going that day! So much for rewarding hard work. Just do average and have some patience and you get into our cc!

coolpeach · Aug 13, 2007

All of the programs around here use a numbers system. I am sort of glad they do. There are are only so many spots, and it gets really competitive. If it were about prior degrees etc then a lot of us for who this is a first degree would never stand a chance. There's also no chance for any subjective picking of favorites or letting relatives or friends in first. The system is across the board regardless of race, age, gender, prior degrees, professions etc and seems really fair. Of course if you do have prior degrees or hospital experience you might have an edge on the tests etc.

JBGC4 · Aug 13, 2007

We are strictly # system as well although it isn't layed out the way yours is.

I didn't find it to be a big deal until I saw my transcripts from 10 years ago and panicked. They are completely flawed and I fear that when the board looks at it they will find me a risk for their program. Although my pre-req grades are good, I had switched my major twice and had many withdraws and some D's. My GPA is in good standing as I had went back a long time ago and tried to wipe out as many of my bad grades that I could.

When I attended school many years back, I was not a serious student. I never attended class, never studied and never did homework. I could kick my own butt for this now.

This is one reason why I feel like the interview process would be good for me. I am a married woman w/ children that has changed from a irrisponsible student 10 years ago to responsible adult who takes my education very seriously.

I just have to hope my present hard work will be enough.

coolpeach · Aug 13, 2007

JBGC4,

I was told that they only look at what they have listed. So for me they look at the 4 major pre reqs and take a GPA from that. Then they look to see how many of the co reqs I took, and get my points from that. Then they look at my Hesi score. Otherwise, they do not consider any other grades, drops, past degrees, classes, anything. So maybe your school is like mine and you have nothing to worry about.

AtomicWoman · Aug 13, 2007

Bold emphasis above is my own. I guess I have a different perspective. Those running the nursing programs have far more experience with identifying successful prospective nursing students that we do. As with most things, I'm sure there are other concerns behind the scenes as well that we wouldn't think of.
I emphasized in bold your statement about being good or not because that raised a red flag for me. If you are not accepted, it does not mean you are not "good." It means there were many applicants and you did not make the cut-off. In another year, with another applicant pool, you might have. So I guess I'm trying to say -- try to abstain from personalizing the process. It's a numbers game, and things change from year to year.
I do understand the frustration, though. I'm on two ADN wait-lists, and I'm applying to two BSN programs.

It's hard not to "personalize" it when it's my career and the rest of my life we're talking about! :)

AtomicWoman · Aug 13, 2007

I think the thing that bothers me is that it is ONLY a numbers game to so many of these schools. I can understand -- totally -- their desire to have some sort of cut-off so they can do a first-pass elimination of candidates who are not likely to succeed. But to make the numbers the sole decision-maker is somewhat dehumanizing, IMHO.

I should add that when I was in grad school, I was the research assistant to a professor who was on the admissions committee at a very LARGE university. Yes, they used SATs and high school GPAs (or college GPAs for graduate candidates) to quickly eliminate some people from the pool. But then, the people on the committee actually sat down and read the applicants' essays and looked over their life experience, outside activities, etc. and *thought* about whether the person would be a successful student at the university. And yes, sometimes, the admissions committee members agonized over these decisions. And yes, it was "time-consuming", "inconvenient", etc. But that's part of the admissions game.

I guess that having seen the process in action, I was surprised and dismayed that *some* nursing schools have chosen to admit strictly by looking at numbers. I know there's nothing I can do about it, that's Life, etc., etc., but it's a tiny bit disheartening. Especially in a profession that prides itself in its "human touch", caring about the individual, etc.