ABSN vs MSN-CNL...which would be better?

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN · Sep 3, 2012

You asked for opinion, and here is mine. You CANNOT be a 'nurse leader' when you have never been a nurse in the first place. Leadership in nursing is DEVELOPED after you have experienced being a nurse for a period of time. I cannot see where these type of programs turn out good nurses at an entry level.

Good luck in your search.

mariebailey, MSN, RN · Sep 3, 2012

Absolutely do the CNL program!!! Here's why:

When you go on to become a psych NP, you'll only be required to obtain a post-master's certificate, not another master's (which means you'll only have to write 1 thesis)
A LOT of your courses, such as Research in Nursing, since they are taught at the graduate level, will transfer over and count towards your psych NP post-Master's certificate; less coursework and duplication
It's a great program with a lot of emphasis on leadership, population-based health, & evidence-based practice.

I completed it myself, and I feel satisfied with my education and where it has taken me thus far.

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Sep 6, 2012

Employers in my area are not hiring entry level MSNs. Which, by the way - are generalists just like all other newbies. ABSNs are not finding jobs either. Preference is for generic BSN grads.. and there are hordes of them out there.

Agree with PP - there is no way that a brand new grad could even understand what nursing leadership entails, much less be considered for such a job. I hope that the OP's mention of an entry level MSN-CL is a misunderstanding. It's almost as funny as (true story) when an irate new grad MHA informed me that there was absolutely no reason that a chief nurse exec actually needed to be an RN.

mariebailey, MSN, RN · Sep 7, 2012

I want to clarify some misconceptions regarding the role of the CNL:

The CNL is not an administrative/management role. The CNL will practice at entry level in a variety of settings right alongside the BSN, from acute care to public health. Their scope of practice is the same.
Their unique educational preparation is intended to better equip them for future positions of formal leadership and provide them with insight as to how to be an informal leader in the interim.
People with CNL certification are coming into the healthcare industry with a wide variety of career, life, and educational experiences that have likely provided them with opportunities to develop leadership skills and critical-thinking skills that will aid their professional development as nurses.
Entry-level MSNs ARE employable.
There appears to be a lack of familiarity with the curriculum & slow acceptance of the role among other nurses, although it is still a relatively new program.

UVA Grad Nursing · Sep 7, 2012

We have offered a Master's Entry CNL program since 2005. 100% of the 2012 grads had job offers before graduation this year (as a means of comparison 80-90% of the BSN grads had jobs on that date). Our ME-CNL grads are going into the same entry-level RN positions that BSN and ABSN grads are going into. We are seeing that they are rising faster up the clinical ladder at their institutions than our most BSN grads. Many CNL grads are also seeking further specialty training (APRN or PhD) after several years.

The CNL movement is new, and the roles differ from employer to employer. Our faculty's approach is not to consider the CNL as a 'role' per se, but as a Master's prepared nurse with an expanded toolbelt who has advanced skills in remedying problems with systems, being a unit-based team-leader focused on patient outsomes, and a RN trained in quality assurance/improvment. S/he is still bedside nurse who delivers care, but the CNL can better understand the complexity of health care systems with the hopes of thinking in new ways to make the patient/delivery experience better.

We also educate the ME-CNL in a different manner than we do BSN students. The Master's Entry student's clinical experience is entirely precepted (1,000 one-to-one clinical hours with a working RN). Most BSN clinical education is still conducted in groups of 8-10, with one precepted experience. We precept from the first term (precepted practica start in Week 6 of the program).

We tell our ME students (and potential employers) that they will not be practicing with all of the skills of the CNL White Paper when they graduate. The experienced ADN-CNL or BSN-CNL program grads should be closer to the White Paper role when they get their MSN degrees. Yes, we have three entry points to the CNL program at UVa (non-nurse, ADN and BSN).