aa's

suzanne4, RN · Apr 15, 2004

I think AAs have been practicing for about 30 years.

Where? Have worked ORs all over the country and have never seen one. What is there training like? What are the requirements for getting into a program? I have seen anesthesia techs for years but never an anesthesia assistant who was adminsitering anesthesia.

Sheri257 · Apr 15, 2004

This has been posted on other threads. But I believe there are only 700 AA's nationwide, and only two schools. I believe they just need a bachelor's, which can be in anything (English, for example) and some pre-req science courses. After that, the AA program itself is about seven semesters or less than two and a half years. No nursing degree, no ICU experience, no RN license, etc. required.

While AA's are currently not much of threat, I think the concern revolves around future trends and things like the above mentioned ad. I now understand why D.C. CRNA's are fighting the AA issue if this ad is any indication, and if D.C. hospitals are looking to hire AA's at comparable salaries.

:uhoh21:

suzanne4, RN · Apr 15, 2004

Thanks for the info. Had never heard of them before...........

Sheri257 · Apr 15, 2004

Incidentally, here's a link from ASA that compares AA's versus CRNA's. Some of it is inaccurate since, for example, the Georgia program does not require a BS.

http://www.asahq.org/asarc/AA-CRNA_Comparison.pdf

http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/MED/ANESTHESIOLOGY/PA_Program/admissions.html

But it does mention that eight states license AA's, and D.C. and Texas AA's operate under "delegatory authority."

Speaking of Texas, $180,000 for an AA position there?

http://www.gaswork.com/cgi-bin/ipbltview.exe?PostIDNum=20813

I don't know if that's for real but, apparently, the D.C. ad is. From what I understand, the hospital testified that $120,000 is what they pay AA's.

:eek:

clickhere · Apr 15, 2004

I think AAs have been practicing for about 30 years.

From Emory's Website:

"Emory=s AA/APA program has been at the Masters level since 1969 when it admitted its first class, and has grown from 24 months to 27 months duration. Emory grants a Master of Medical Science (MMSc) in Anesthesiology and Patient Monitoring Systems."

That would be over 30 years, and according to Emory there are 545 practicing AA's.

user69 · Apr 15, 2004

Thanks for posting the comparison between AAs and CRNAs. But one thing looked a bit off. It said that one third of all practicing CRNAs do not have an undergraduate degree. Can that be correct?

deepz · Apr 15, 2004

Thanks for posting the comparison between AAs and CRNAs. But one thing looked a bit off. It said that one third of all practicing CRNAs do not have an undergraduate degree. Can that be correct?

Many things 'look a bit off' when one professional group tries to define and denigrate their competition. Perhaps the A$A means that one third of CRNAs entered the field before a bachelor's degree was required for entry into anesthesia schools? Perhaps their info is dated ... BTW at last count there are 31,000 CRNAs serving America, not 24,000 as the A$A asserts.

600 some is the total number of AA graduates in the past 30 years, a couple hundred of whom no longer practice as AAs, according to a past president of their group.

deepz

Athlein1 · Apr 16, 2004

Clarification: the Emory AA program requires a bachelor's degree, as it awards a master's degree.

Also, note that Emory admits that 10% of its AAs go on to med school, and another 2-3% go on to further education. A 12-13% attrition rate from the AA profession is a revealing statistic, don't you think?

And, for all you worriers and ruminators out there, understand this. CRNAs have been providing anesthesia in this country for decades. We are here to stay. In what capacity we will be able to practice depends on our continuing support of our national organization and political involvement to protect our practice rights at the state and national levels.

MDAs are here to stay, too. Whether you choose to work with them in a medically-directed anesthesia care team setting or work under your own direction is your decision.

When you are an AA, you do not have the luxury of that decision. You are always medically-directed, always supervised, always controlled. It is an inherent part of the job description.

Do not make the mistake of comparing the quality and scope of care that CRNAs provide to that of AAs. The practices are not interchangeable. Period.

Equal salary? Perhaps - in this isolated instance. Equal scope of practice? Certainly not.

mato_tom · Apr 16, 2004

Clarification: the Emory AA program requires a bachelor's degree, as it awards a master's degree.
Also, note that Emory admits that 10% of its AAs go on to med school, and another 2-3% go on to further education. A 12-13% attrition rate from the AA profession is a revealing statistic, don't you think?
And, for all you worriers and ruminators out there, understand this. CRNAs have been providing anesthesia in this country for decades. We are here to stay. In what capacity we will be able to practice depends on our continuing support of our national organization and political involvement to protect our practice rights at the state and national levels.
MDAs are here to stay, too. Whether you choose to work with them in a medically-directed anesthesia care team setting or work under your own direction is your decision.
When you are an AA, you do not have the luxury of that decision. You are always medically-directed, always supervised, always controlled. It is an inherent part of the job description.
Do not make the mistake of comparing the quality and scope of care that CRNAs provide to that of AAs. The practices are not interchangeable. Period.
Equal salary? Perhaps - in this isolated instance. Equal scope of practice? Certainly not.

any data on % of cases for CRNAs that ARE medically directed by an MDA?

deepz · Apr 16, 2004

any data on % of cases for CRNAs that ARE medically directed by an MDA?

The A$A will tell you that MDAs 'control' 90% of the anesthetics in America.

Don't believe it.

Half the hospitals in America use CRNAs only.

deepz

Sheri257 · Apr 16, 2004

Question for the CRNA's here: I've always assumed the reason MDA's were pushing for AA's was to take control away from CRNA's and, essentially, make more money off of AA's by paying them less.

However, if these ads are any indication, they're paying AA's a lot of money. I'm told the $120,000 salary in D.C. is for real and, apparently, it's what they're offering both CRNA's and AA's for that position. Supposedly, this hospital is the primary proponent of AA's in the D.C. dispute.

So, the question is, if they're paying such high salaries, what's in it for them? What difference does an AA make in a situation like that, versus a CRNA if they cost the same? And why would they be fighting with the city council to keep AA's if they cost just as much?

I'm cynical by nature, and don't necessarily believe it's because they're concerned about the current shortage. Although I suppose that could also be a reason.

I tend to agree with deepz's A$A designation. This has got to be about the money. I'd just like to understand how this works for them.

:smokin:

jbro · Apr 16, 2004

well spoken.

Clarification: the Emory AA program requires a bachelor's degree, as it awards a master's degree.
Also, note that Emory admits that 10% of its AAs go on to med school, and another 2-3% go on to further education. A 12-13% attrition rate from the AA profession is a revealing statistic, don't you think?
And, for all you worriers and ruminators out there, understand this. CRNAs have been providing anesthesia in this country for decades. We are here to stay. In what capacity we will be able to practice depends on our continuing support of our national organization and political involvement to protect our practice rights at the state and national levels.
MDAs are here to stay, too. Whether you choose to work with them in a medically-directed anesthesia care team setting or work under your own direction is your decision.
When you are an AA, you do not have the luxury of that decision. You are always medically-directed, always supervised, always controlled. It is an inherent part of the job description.
Do not make the mistake of comparing the quality and scope of care that CRNAs provide to that of AAs. The practices are not interchangeable. Period.
Equal salary? Perhaps - in this isolated instance. Equal scope of practice? Certainly not.